Sawbacks on user knives

hahah Bruce, good for you. Can't wait to see it.

TO Dan, as Bruce seemed to ahve said, or led to here, think you'd heat treat it same as a blade. Has to be hard, but can't be brittle(reason you see bimetal hacksaw blades that have hardened teeth wlded onto a flexible steel frame). I think if you are doing it yourself, best HT would be a clay coat on spine/center that isn't going to be a bevel or saw(if that makes sense. Hard to describe without knowing actual blade design and such) and then a regular temper. Or if you feel like being more complicated, you might do a low temp temper for whole thing, so that saw teeth are still pretty hard, then use torch to do a selective temper on actual edge to soften it up a little more and remove some brittleness. Again, kinda hard to say without knowing actual knife.

My .02
 
Bruce, if you make one I call dibs!

(If I can afford it.)
 
Michael, This one goes to a special guy Thomas R Moro. One of my friends and 40 year engraver. He is going to give it full coverage before its hardened. Its a gift for his daughter who is moving to New York. I may make another though. Lets talk.
 
I had a couple of requests for long sawbacks and built them using Steratt .100 yellow industrial hacksaw blades. I built the guards out of solid blocks of brass that included a finger hole on the underneath side of the guard and an upside down U on the opposite(topside), per customer order. Yep, weird, but functional. The blade cut on the forward stroke and the hand could not accidentally slip over the guard onto the blade. Now it gets more weird. The second knife was built for a fellow that saw the first one and had to have one that was "better". He had me build a lockblade into the handle. Originally he wanted a folder, but I knew he would probably have the folder blade open, and while focusing on the long blade he could accidentally hit or catch the folder blade tip on something and close the blade on his fingers. Anyhow, the monster worked, customer was happy, and my son nicknamed the knife "Exhibit A" because it looked like something Jeffery Dahlmer would enjoy. Also, the saw blade really cut good on test cuts before polishing. The only thing that put a good polish on the blade was diamond compound, by the way.
 
Bruce - where do you find a saw shop to do the grind?

not the kind of thing I see in the yellow pages...
 
Dan look for bellsaw in the Yellow pages they sell
machinery all the time to sharpen saws and I think they will tell you
where their customers are...
or look under sharpening/saws .

I've been a dealer for chain saws for a long time
and messed with chain saw chains a lot.
I'm thinking on using replacement saw teeth in the back
of a blade and they would be replaceable
the older 1/4" pitch should work great.

pros and cons on yes good or no in the use of them
here, but the customer pays the bills.. :)
I would rather drag it back not push forward...
if you do slip for any reason ouch :(
 
Well for me they are necessary. I am going to be making diggers for metal detecting and it has to have a saw back to cut roots. If anyone cares to tell me how the serrations on a gerber saw are made, I am all ears! They rock!!! :D
Also, here is a great link that was passed on to me that explains saw blades.
http://www.vintagesaws.com/cgi-bin/frameset.cgi?left=sawcare&right=/library/primer/sharp.html


gerber1.jpg

gerber2.jpg

gerber3.jpg
 
Other than the handle being upside down, the 18 inch US Mil-Spec Ontario Knife sawback machete is an example of a sawback that works well. It cuts on the pull. Simple right triangle teeth with no set, so I would not try to make deep cuts. Usefull for notching sticks though.
Of course it tends chews up even oak batons!
1095 BTW.
 
Well heck, This thread came up again so I will give an update on my saw-back bowie. I roughed it out of ATS 34 and sent it to the saw shop I thought would do a good job,,,,Wrong! It came back with a bill for $19 and looks like cra^$*%! The grind is lower in some places and high in others and the other side looks even worse! There is no "set" in the teeth either. I need to order more ATS now and try again with another shop. Any Ideas whom to send the next one to?
 
This thread grew fast. I hate sawback kinves......but just like most childish people, I had to build one or two. Someone else here did the same thing I did and it worked. I used am industrial hacksaw blade and ground the edge on the back. A word of warning though. Bi-Metal blades do not work well for this.
I have a SOG power plier that I love and it has a fairly good saw in it. The only use I've ever had for saw knives is for making and setting snares. I don't trap anymore so I doubt I'll ever make another one.

Just like everyone else, I'm looking forward to seeing Bruce's knife when it's finished. If anyone can make one that I think is usable, he can!:eek:
 
Peter, Thanks for the vote of confidance. I still need to find somebody to do the saw grinding. I would use a saw of some kind and make a knife from it but my customer wants it made from ATS and he will engrave it before HT.
 
hI DAN,

I am a rookie compared to you folks but have used plenty of knives and made knives and swords a few years back.

Im also an avid diver and water rescue instructor.

I can only see a saw back on a blade if needed for a special application.

the original saw back/survival I believe was made by Bo Randall for an Army air Cav medical officer in VietNam the original intent of the saw was to cut its way through an aircraft skin in the event of a crash(helicopter sheetmetal) and It does work.

that aside the only thing I ever did that I wanted a saw back was sort of the same situation as Trick I made a bolo type machete out of a heavy industrial hacksaw blade and the saw Back was like a pruning saw (handy around the yard).

I have owned a ton of Dive knives and most wether small or large have a saw back.

except for chewing through some big rope (I never had to).

again except for chewing trough big ropes (serations are better) the saw back serves no purpose underwater.

I never used the saw back on any thing when diving .

actually My favorite dive knife at the moment is a Big Becker swat entry tool that has serations near the grip to assist in cutting ropes netting etc and has a very sharp chisel grind on most of the blade.

but to be honest, any time I needed to actually Cut somthing underwater I always used a smaller very sharp Homemade knife that was on my gear or a pair of paramedic shears (penny extricators)

I guess Im in the camp that does not like saw backs AS They have no real purpose except for very special applications and then the saw part needs to be specifically designed for the task.

Bo Randalls saw was straight vertical teeth, for roots and such I would think the teeth should be angled a bit just like a hand saw.

sorry to rattle on great site!!!
 
------------------
Originally posted by Bruce Bump
I still need to find somebody to do the saw grinding.
------------------

Hi Bruce, I know it's on the wrong side of the mountains from your house, but you could see if the Sharp Shop folks would do it for you:
Sharp Shop Inc
128 South Lucile Street
Seattle, WA 98108
Phone: 206-762-6480

They do sharpening work for the industrial tooling and cabinetmakers in the nearby warehouse district. They seem to have a good reputation, although I've never used them myself. I just hope they are not the crew you used on your initial saw-backed blade attempt.... :footinmou

Alternatively, you could ask the folks at Eastside Saw in Bellevue if they do sharpening or could recommend someone who does it.
Eastside Saw and Sales
12880 Bel Red Road
Bellevue, WA 98005
Phone: 425-454-7627

A long shot: Find someone who worked with saws before they had Stihl printed on the side and remembers how to sharpen human-powered saws. Ask around locally for old-timer loggers or maybe farmers. Check area diners for old farts, coots, and galoots. Eavesdrop on their conversations. Try not to get arrested. You can ignore me if you spot me there. I'll be one of the galoots that doesn't know how to sharpen saws. ;) :D
 
Quote: Check area diners for old farts, coots, and galoots

RocJok, You just described my best friends and most of my family...They dont know any saw filers either.

Thanks for the shops in your neck of the woods. Im not against sending it away. I will call them first and check em out. Nope they are not the Sharp Shop in Summerville Ore. so I still have a chance.
 
divwize I just made one of these for a friend Master diver/instructor
I've made a few of these now.

http://www.kynd.com/~graydg/gray135-1.jpg
sorry to horn in here..:o

I mentioned way back in this thread that I'm going to make one with
1/4" pitch chain saw replacement teeth,it will be a mean looking
bear. :) when I get time:( :D

Bruce what is the thickness of it?
 
yeaup you might have called them over kill..:eek:
that was the reason,, imagine if you kill someone
with a knife in war you have to do it nice and clean.
 
Originally posted by Graymaker
divwize I just made one of these for a friend Master diver/instructor
I've made a few of these now.

http://www.kynd.com/~graydg/gray135-1.jpg
sorry to horn in here..:o

I mentioned way back in this thread that I'm going to make one with
1/4" pitch chain saw replacement teeth,it will be a mean looking
bear. :) when I get time:( :D

Bruce what is the thickness of it?
Click to expand...

Hey Dan that Knife looks great what is the steel scales etc??

one question is the grip big enough for bulky underwater gloves?

cant tell from photo? Im impressed.
 
Originally posted by divewize
Hey Dan that Knife looks great what is the steel scales etc??
one question is the grip big enough for bulky underwater gloves?
cant tell from photo? Im impressed.
Click to expand...

Divewize
it's a big Knife,,blade is 1/4"x 5 1/4" 10 1/4" oal double edged nitrogen enhanced 154CM ss
Red Micarta with the pack logo in white Micarta SS pins
with a molded kydex leg sheath
 
Dan, you gotta post a picture of the chain saw tooth knife when you make it! If I used a 154CM or another good knife steel for a saw knife, I would make sure the saw teeth are soft enough to sharpen with files. The sharpening machines I have seen used a bolted in file to sharpen the saws. I don't know of anyone around here that sharpens saws by hand, but can check for you. I can remember my dad sharpening all his saws by hand, as well as using a hand set tool to set the teeth.
 
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