SAYOC Template definitions

C

Call Me Al

Joined
Jan 24, 2000
Messages
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From what I understand the Sayoc template system is based on anatomy. I have been going through the Gray's Anatomy book trying to locate each target, but am having a problem determining some of the locations.

Is there anyone who has gone to the seminars who have locations for each target in layman's terms (WHat's the blue worm).

Additionally, does anyone know if the anatomical location dictates the type of attack (ie slash, stab...) or if it is executed with the right or left hand.

Any help would be helpful

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Call Me Al
 
Al the blue worm is the intestines when they fall out they turn blue from oxygen hitting them.It is a cut under the belt.
 
Hello All!
First I would like to say that I am happy to have found this excelent resource
smile.gif
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I will most likely be lurking, as I'm new to the bladed arts and don't think I will be able to add much. I may have a few questions though!
O.K., now that thats out of the way I'll give you what little I know about the Sayoc templates. To the best of my very limited knowledge each hand has a different line for each template.
Location does I belive, dictate the type of attack - i.e. slash to the juggler, thrust to the heart.
Also - the blue worm, yes it is a belt line slash, BUT - when oxygen hits the intestines they appear to turn red. Notice when you cut yourself your blood is red, but it is blue in the veins. I think the name "blue worm" is a sort of inside joke to the Sayoc people. hope this helps!
 
oops yes your right it does turn red sorry about that! yea it is a nickname!
 
I was observing the 9 count 3 of 9 template MPG on their site has what appears to be a blue worm slash across the stomach, but in the Outline in the template does not mention the blue worm.

I am I seeing things or are there different variations on the same template

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Call Me Al
 
I was observing the 9 count 3 of 9 template MPG on their site has what appears to be a blue worm slash across the stomach, but in the Outline in the template does not mention the blue worm.

I am I seeing things or are there different variations on the same template

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Call Me Al
 
Call me al,If you look at it again it is #3 the abdominal aorta just changed the name thats all from the inside joke to what it really is!its a slash by the way.
 
To "Blue Worm" someone has probably been around for a long, long time.

The last Post where you mentioned the Abdominal Aorta, uh...they slash that? That is deep and would take an incredibly large knife, that is back behind all of the digestive organs and lies in front of the spine. Usually hit with a thrust. Am I misunderstanding your Post?
 
That is part of my confusion. Whe I look up specific anatomical areas, some of them are being attacked with techniques which would not reach the artery or organ. Gray's shows the abdominal arota in the rear of the cavity between the kidneys and from the autopsies I have attended, I would have to agree with Don it would have to be very deep to hit this area.

Has anyone attended the Sayocs seminars and has an explanation. Is it a target so you also hit the other vitals as well?

I have been digging in to understand.


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Call Me Al
 
Well, if you want to get technical, you are not going to probably do that on a slash, it is going to be a deliberate cut. And you are not going to do it with a Tactical Folder unless the guy is an anorexic and the Tactical Folder you are carrying is a 5.5 inch bladed REKAT SIFU.

One of Ronald GOldman's fatal wounds was a thrust to the abdominal aorta.

A sword, yes, an extremely large fixed blade, yes...a medium fixed blade. Don't count on it. A small fixed blade to folder...you're playing the lottery.
 
guys guys your not thinking conceptually here,think of targeting of course a small knife wont hit it and a big blade will still you will try to nail it with both dig deep brother!
peace
 
plus think about pealing a potato eventually you will hit core!or think like a paint brush and keep andding coats!
 
I talked to a guy yesterday with many years in Sayoc. I tis like Don and Edge said, you need a specific tool for a specific job. That may include templates.

I am looking at it from a different angle. Those of you on the east coast let me know what the Sayoc seminars are like I know I will have to start saving up for plane tickets.

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Call Me Al
 
On the question concerning the templates in Sayoc Kali. The templates are but a guide, as those familiar with blade making- a blade template is but a sketch or outline; there are many details and polish before it is complete.
For instance, on the abdominal aorta question, we are looking at an advancing individual or an individual(you or the attacker) braced against a wall/ground- not a stationary target. Within the template, the finer points are whether a particular move is for an attacker reacting to a move by zoning away, reflexively conditioned to an angle of attack, or reacting to some pain. If you look at the first two moves in that template, one can meet an advance, then on move two thrust forward and then on the third move meet the advance again. The opposite hand is not mirroring the other hand, but is either loading a weapon or attacking/enforcing from a different angle. One still needs to draw the weapon at times, and learning to load at different angles and positions and also learning where the knife is most comfortable to draw from for the individual is part of the methodology.

Gumagalang,
--Rafael--
 
Originally posted by Call Me Al:
That is part of my confusion. Whe I look up specific anatomical areas, some of them are being attacked with techniques which would not reach the artery or organ. Gray's shows the abdominal arota in the rear of the cavity between the kidneys and from the autopsies I have attended, I would have to agree with Don it would have to be very deep to hit this area.

Has anyone attended the Sayocs seminars and has an explanation. Is it a target so you also hit the other vitals as well?

I have been digging in to understand.
Click to expand...

All targets on the templates are also are a natural open targets because of reflexive response and response to being cut. And the abdominal aorta is different depths on different people, on me its about 12" deep because of my multiple cheeseburger defense.

Also remember the body is flexible. I have felt the Ab Aorta with my finger tips on thin people by pressing deeply into the stomach, now picture me pressing deeply with a 3' folder.

Do we really have to say, " The third count of 3 of 9 Righthand template target is the Abdominal Aorta, but if you have a razor blade between your thumb and forefinger you may have trouble reaching that target, on the other hand if your using a Barong you can sever the spine" Do you mean, we have to tell you that ???

Gumagalang, (with respect)
Sayoc Lakan Pito Guro
Tom Kier

 
All Brothers in The Blade,

There is a distinct difference between being disrespectful and seeking clarity, "Al" and I were seeking clarity and meant no disrespect.

I am not stupid when it comes to edged weapons, anatomy or the mechanics of injury, and no, I do not have to be led around as if I were a child.

It was all about a slash and there was no mention of "weapon specificity." We were looking for clarity...

There is also something called, flesh compression, which can make a 5-inch blade go possibly as far as 10 inches in the body, because when the flesh is hit, it compresses and the wound track will be deeper...this is another reason why the dunderheads in the L.A. Prosecutor's Office screwed the pooch in a certain double homicide case a few years ago. They ignored the mechanics of injury. Mark Fuhrman detailed this in his excellent book, "Murder in Brentwood." How a common, rather short, folding knife could reach the Abdominal Aorta on a thrust. We were discussing a slash on here though. Flesh Compression also happens on a forceful slash, but not to the extraordinary degree that it can occur on a thrust. I believe Retired L.A. County Coroner Thomas Noguchi (sp? I cannot find the book now!) wrote about this in one of his books as well with regard to the Manson Investigation.

I speak for no one else, however, I meant no disrespect whatsoever (and I don't think "Al" did either)...in fact, I think Sayoc Kali has a terrific reputation and personally, I think it is a breath of fresh air to see people in the Filipino Arts who are not scared to come right out and say they teach blade, live by the blade and base their whole concept of defense/offense around it...and I am sure there is even more than meets the eye beyond that!

Thanks to Rafael and Tom for their insight and welcome, you surely have a voice here in this Forum. I hope you post more!

[This message has been edited by Don Rearic (edited 07-26-2000).]
 
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