scales and hidden tang

SteelSlaver

SteelSlaver

Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Messages
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I have always used blocks to make handles on my hidden tangs. But I had this nice set of spalted stabilized maple scales and wanted to try them. They seemed perfectly flat so I milled a slot in both halves and drilled them to match the tang. Then I epoxied them together, pinned on the tang and clamped them with my vise an a couple c clamps. I have sanded them to shape and the look great, the match up perfectly, but, I can see the line in a couple places. Is this normal or is there a way to make them perfect so the line is impossible to detect. Thanks for the help Jim
 
I have seen it done with spacer material in between and it looked good. NOt sure if you could make it disappear otherwise. Did you mill the wood flat as well?
Matt
 
Milling will not get the surfaces as flat as they need to be. For your final prep, lay 400 grit paper on a dead flat surface, I use thick plate glass, and work the grip halves over that. Work them lengthwise, then at an angle. Check under incandesant light to see if all of the surface has an even finish of the direction you are going. When you are ready to install them, use all the C clamps you can possibly place on them, and as close to the edges as you can get them. That has worked for me. Others mileage may vary.
 
I would expect a line, especially when trying to match the grain, burl or spalting pattern . Maybe not blatantly visible, but a "line" nonetheless. I forged a cable blade once that had a rabbit tang, I used blk. linen micarta in the same manner as you described. A pretty good match but there was still a line due to a slight variance in material grain direction. I would say "normal" to answer your question Jim
 
An old trick to take care of this is to put a thin spacer of a contrasting material in the joint.It can be fiber material, ebony,silver or gold sheet,.....(you get the idea). It will finish to an elegant accent and the line is a focus ,not a flaw. It is best, if using metal, to match the guard with the spacer. You can make a mock full tang knife the same way. I often use ebony spacers between mammoth ivory scales....stunning.
Stacy
 
I did this on a couple of blades. Use a polished flat surface, sand down to 600 on the mating surfaces. Once epoxyed, sand down to 600, buff progressively from black, green, to white. That is if they are stabilized. You will see the finest of lines between the slabs. If you have book matched slabs, make sure you pay attention to the grain.
 
Ok . thanks the line is real faint. I lose it in a couple spots. I have seen some amazing wood work and wanted to know if I was doing anything wrong. If I do another I may try the sanding o th flat glass. Has anyone tried gluing them togeather into a block with a glue like Gorilla glue and whats you opinions on this type of glue
 
I have found epoxy is brilliant glue, and is also available in various viscosities and thicknesses.. for your application, a thinner type might be a better option. As I recall Gorilla glue is Polyurethane, which is good stuff, but in my opinion I trust epoxy as being less prone to 'aging'
 
Sand paper on glass, be sure to use spray adhesive to mount the paper. If you don't bond it to the glass it can shift as you sand, the wood pushes a little rinkle in front of it. In fact, you get a distortion of the paper all around the slab, this distortion will wear away the edges of the wood just a little more than the rest of the block, so leaving more of a tell-tale line.

I don't know if that happens with all types of paper and for all people, but that is how it has been for me and other folks I know. I always mount my paper now and get much better results.

I have also been toying with using Gorilla glue to stick the two slabs together, then letting it cure before inserting the blade tang. I find that in some cases, juggling the line up of the slabs, and the interface with the guard can be a bit of a handful. Gluing the slabs first has helped me get a better fit behind the guard. It might not be best practice, but it seems to work. The Gorilla glue is good since it foams when not confined and is a lot easier to clean out of the tang slot if any should leak in. I only use epoxy for actually fitting the tang since the urethane glues don't fill gaps well.
 
My brother who makes musical instruments has told me that Gorilla glue is a very good "hide glue" and should hold pieces of wood together for 100s of years. He didn't think it would be nearly as good wood to metal. I am sure that types of wood results may vary.

On another note, what if I were to get a machined piece of steel 1/2 or thicker and set it up with clamps to hold the paper down. Thanks for all the help
 
Gorrilla glue is polyurethane glue. It is bad for any precision work, or anything that requires close fitting because it expands as it dries. This results in a larger gap.

Gorilla glue is good for glueing something with large gaps.

Hide glue is made from animal protien, and it shrinks as it dries. Hide glue is as strong or stronger than epoxy, but it is not water resistant.
 
ib2v4u said:
On another note, what if I were to get a machined piece of steel 1/2 or thicker and set it up with clamps to hold the paper down. Thanks for all the help
Click to expand...

glass is probably cheaper to get a flat piece than steel. glass is made to very good tolerances in general where metal might be hard to get the perfect piece. at least that is my understanding of why to use glass

-matt
 
physh said:
Gorrilla glue is polyurethane glue. It is bad for any precision work, or anything that requires close fitting because it expands as it dries. This results in a larger gap.

Gorilla glue is good for glueing something with large gaps.
Click to expand...

The bolded part is untrue if you use gorilla glue the correct way, gorilla glue is very weak where it has to fill gaps. Always make sure you have lots of clamps on the piece when working with gorilla glue and you'll have a great bond that will last a lifetime. :thumbup: You also have to remember that it's not like epoxy, you don't want the gorilla glue oozing out of the sides when you clamp your pieces. :eek: When it says 1/2 oz. per sq. ft it MEANS 1/2 oz. Also a lot of people don't remember to dampen the surface, which is a crucial step in getting a good bond.
 
Well, I tried using strong bulldog type clips to hold the paper to the glass and still didn't get it as flat as I wanted for minimal gaps. I got a bit of glass that used to be on a desk or coffee table and glued three sheets of premium sandpaper to it in a range of grits. The premium paper doesn't clog too fast and cuts well. I can now go through from something like 60 grit to 220 grit. I haven't gone all the way to 400 grit for gluing wood on the basis that a little key on the surface is a good thing. I sand, degrease with acetone, and glue straight away.

It is bad for any precision work, or anything that requires close fitting because it expands as it dries. This results in a larger gap.

Gorilla glue is good for glueing something with large gaps.
Click to expand...

physh,
I am going to have to disagree with you on this one :). If the glue expands it takes on the texture of foam, with a significant reduction in strength. For a strong joint, it has to be used on close fitting parts with enough clamp pressure to keep parts in close contact. The pressure should be enough so that you can hardly see a glue line. I haven't tried it for precision work without clamping and would imagine that it sucks if you are trying to glue small wood inlays into something, but I always use three g-clamps to hold scales in place while the adhesive sets, so it has worked fine.

There was a great thread on Knifenetworks where they tested different adhesives and Gorilla glue came out as one of the best things to use for putting wood scales onto steel tangs. I tried breaking scales off steel that were stuck with Gorilla glue and the wood broke before the glue let go.
 
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