Bad SCAM - Ideological Falsehood - PP F&F

[Jair Klutchcouski]

Unfortunately, another user was the victim of a scam (me too, as it involved my name) involving PP friends and family.

Although we already have notifications and warnings discouraging the use of F&F, we know that it is common, easier and cheaper to use this tool.

If the user doesn't want to post here and identify themselves, I understand, but if my example serves to alert another buyer, I think it was worth it.

The bastard used a question from an interested member about the knife listed, identified his email and responded directly via email to the question asked in the thread.

The crook changed the name registered on the email server and they closed the deal with a PP ID that was different from mine.

I think it's worth demonstrating that a simple and common doubt raised in the thread was enough for the MTF to "customize" the scam.

I already sold a piece where the customer, when making payment, got confused when converting the dollar to the Brazilian real and made the payment in dollars x 5 (exchange rate at the time was 1.00USD = 5.00R$). I returned the part that wasn't mine and everything was fine. With all of this, I just want to say that it's not up to me what isn't mine, but this bastard ended up hurting me as well as the user who was actually victimized with their hard-earned dollars and the feeling of not being able to do anything.

Let us remain vigilant, my friends. The internet allows me, here in Brazil, to have access to cutlery lovers from all over the world, but it also allows the world's criminals to have access to ours.

To the user who could become a customer and friend, my most sincere “I'm sorry” and I hope you can recover this loss twice and don't stop belonging to the world of knives.

Ah, I'm sorry if the term in the title doesn't exist in English, but it was exactly that, another person pretending to be me to take undue advantage.

Jair Klutchcouski
Curitiba, Paraná, Brazil

 

[RoyalHolic]

Although we already have notifications and warnings discouraging the use of F&F, we know that it is common, easier and cheaper to use this tool.

Sucks that it happened but it's not easier to F&F than G&S and it wasn't as common until people got scared of the IRS.

If you go the cheapest way well more than not you'll end up getting what you pay for.

 

[Jair Klutchcouski]

Sucks that it happened but it's not easier to F&F than G&S and it wasn't as common until people got scared of the IRS.

If you go the cheapest way well more than not you'll end up getting what you pay for.

When I say easier, it's because the seller ends up suggesting FF because it can be cashed out faster, without the need for the piece to arrive at its destination.
I don't know how it works for other people, but when I receive it via G&S, the amount is only released the day after delivery confirmation, so PP can retain this amount if FEDEX tracking does not confirm receipt.
Anyway, they are security tools that end up costing a little more.

 

[RoyalHolic]

When I say easier, it's because the seller ends up suggesting FF because it can be cashed out faster, without the need for the piece to arrive at its destination.
I don't know how it works for other people, but when I receive it via G&S, the amount is only released the day after delivery confirmation, so PP can retain this amount if FEDEX tracking does not confirm receipt.
Anyway, they are security tools that end up costing a little more.

That's true but being more impatient won't get you anywhere.

Nobody in the non-digital world will give hundreds of dollars to a random stranger in hopes of receiving goods why should you do it online?

And I've used F&F a few times but you have to do your due diligence and I won't be using it any longer unless they are indeed Friends or Family.

 

[Jair Klutchcouski]

That's true but being more impatient won't get you anywhere.

Nobody in the non-digital world will give hundreds of dollars to a random stranger in hopes of receiving goods why should you do it online?

And I've used F&F a few times but you have to do your due diligence and I won't be using it any longer unless they are indeed Friends or Family.

In fact. I feel for my client, and I would gladly test my Bowie's edge retention on the scoundrel who stole it. (this part is a joke, I'm not inciting violence - or not).

 

[RoyalHolic]

In fact. I feel for my client, and I would gladly test my Bowie's edge retention on the scoundrel who stole it. (this part is a joke, I'm not inciting violence - or not).

Sucks for sure.

Everyone needs to double verify regardless of G&S or F&F because either way you can still be scammed.

 

[GmpaJim]

A thief’s success , is an illusion.
You and the victim will recover and move on, wiser, as will we.
The thief, will only see a thief in the mirror.
Stealing is not a road to success, but a spiral into a worse life.

 

[Jair Klutchcouski]

A thief’s success , is an illusion.
You and the victim will recover and move on, wiser, as will we.
The thief, will only see a thief in the mirror.
Stealing is not a road to success, but a spiral into a worse life.

That's what I think, too. But would it be "un-Christian" of me to see the scoundrel having a bad end, rsrs?

 

[madcap_magician]

That's what I think, too. But would it be "un-Christian" of me to see the scoundrel having a bad end, rsrs?

Like.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Sadly, this happens all too often. Jair is being the better man here. I always pray for my enemies ... not that harm comes upon them but that they see the error in their ways. I also forgive them and move on with my life. Harboring hate is like drinking acid. It will eat you up from the inside.

I hope this works out for Jair and his customer.
I had a person scammed in a KITH I ran by a participant who entered just to get a free knife. He never sent a knife to his recipient, and disappeared immediately after receiving his knife. I made the recipient who got nothing a knife myself and sent it to him free. That way he will not feel all knifemakers are scammers. Maybe Jair making this customer a knife will be worth the effort and materials in good will with a customer relationship.



I want to take this opportunity to point out why it is against the forum rules and PayPal rules to ask for or accept F&F for anything you make and sell.
You have no recourse. You can't file a claim or get your money back. Asking for F&F or accepting it is fraud on PayPal and the state and federal government taxes due. Being an honest businessman means paying the taxes and fees required to do business.
The scammer committed fraud, by the buyer willingly agreed to participate.

I will repeat the forum and PayPal rules - Do not send Friends and Family payments for Goods or Services. It can get your account suspended, and the customer has no recourse for a refund. It is also dishonest. Your reputation is all that separates you from anyone else in the knife world. Don't tarnish it over a few % in fees and taxes.

 

[SwissHeritageCo]

When I say easier, it's because the seller ends up suggesting FF because it can be cashed out faster, without the need for the piece to arrive at its destination.
I don't know how it works for other people, but when I receive it via G&S, the amount is only released the day after delivery confirmation, so PP can retain this amount if FEDEX tracking does not confirm receipt.
Anyway, they are security tools that end up costing a little more.

Maybe on a business account? I know ebay used to do this during a verification period, but once you had a proven track record the G & S funds were released immediately.

 

[Jair Klutchcouski]

Sadly, this happens all too often. Jair is being the better man here. I always pray for my enemies ... not that harm comes upon them but that they see the error in their ways. I also forgive them and move on with my life. Harboring hate is like drinking acid. It will eat you up from the inside.

I hope this works out for Jair and his customer.
I had a person scammed in a KITH I ran by a participant who entered just to get a free knife. He never sent a knife to his recipient, and disappeared immediately after receiving his knife. I made the recipient who got nothing a knife myself and sent it to him free. That way he will not feel all knifemakers are scammers. Maybe Jair making this customer a knife will be worth the effort and materials in good will with a customer relationship.



I want to take this opportunity to point out why it is against the forum rules and PayPal rules to ask for or accept F&F for anything you make and sell.
You have no recourse. You can't file a claim or get your money back. Asking for F&F or accepting it is fraud on PayPal and the state and federal government taxes due. Being an honest businessman means paying the taxes and fees required to do business.
The scammer committed fraud, by the buyer willingly agreed to participate.

I will repeat the forum and PayPal rules - Do not send Friends and Family payments for Goods or Services. It can get your account suspended, and the customer has no recourse for a refund. It is also dishonest. Your reputation is all that separates you from anyone else in the knife world. Don't tarnish it over a few % in fees and taxes.

Thanks. Yes, you are right.
I will study compensation for this problem.

 

[Jair Klutchcouski]

Maybe on a business account? I know ebay used to do this during a verification period, but once you had a proven track record the G & S funds were released immediately.

Yeap!! I will ensure that my clients and friends have more and more security.

 

[ooitzoo]

I continue to be shocked by the # of folks posting PPFF as their *only* means of payment and the # of folks who accept this. There is a literal PSA at the top of the forum.

Aside from the good natured folks on the forum who will try and make things right, there isn't anything anyone can do once a PPFF payment has gone out.

 

[K80Shooter]

That's what I think, too. But would it be "un-Christian" of me to see the scoundrel having a bad end, rsrs?

I Also Like.

 

[GmpaJim]

That's what I think, too. But would it be "un-Christian" of me to see the scoundrel having a bad end, rsrs?

It would be fun to infect the bad guys computer, no question.
As you know, his eternity and yours will be very different.

 

[Dawkind]

Jair is a fine Gentleman and exceptional Maker….we’ve had many transactions over the years and everyone went through with no problems.

By no means Jair’s fault….add 4% fees and use Goods & Services if one so desires….I’ve never been burned.

 

[DrRollinstein]

Yup. Don't use friends and family ever. This was just attempted on me the other day, had two different emails and they wanted f&f even though the original thread said goods and services.

 

[mikey488]

I continue to be shocked by the # of folks posting PPFF as their *only* means of payment and the # of folks who accept this. There is a literal PSA at the top of the forum.

Aside from the good natured folks on the forum who will try and make things right, there isn't anything anyone can do once a PPFF payment has gone out.

There are more than a few items that I've wanted to buy, but did not, only because the purchase required me to pay by PPFF when we were not either one. I had to misrepresent the transaction in order to make the purchase, so I didn't purchase.

 

[ooitzoo]

There are more than a few items that I've wanted to buy, but did not, only because the purchase required me to pay by PPFF when we were not either one. I had to misrepresent the transaction in order to make the purchase, so I didn't purchase.

Yup. Same here.

Sometimes, when the sale thread isn't "PPFF ONLY", I will post something along the lines of "I'll use PP G&S though I can take care of your fees". It's then up to the seller what they want to do. If they refuse then cool (though I have to wonder as to why).