Scandi Edge Testing ......... ( Results are crazy - dog gone nuts )

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old4570

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Ok , more edge testing .... Scandi this time .
I have tested Dual Grit = It works
Coarse grit = It works

And testing coarse grit I threw in two Mora Knives ..
Both were given 320 grit diamond cut edges and both knives impressed . ( Taken to 500 )
But now I am dedicating some testing to the Scandi edge .
Time for my Mora Robust to step up to the plate !

Sharpening = VIA guided system ..
First I create the bevel I want ( creates a bur both ways )
Then I 320 grit the edge :
I have already posted a video on how I am sharpening ..


Doing dual grit in the video , but the method/process is the same whether it is DG / CG / or Scandi .

So ............................... I stopped at 650 slices with the Carbon Robust because clearly the edge had worn ! Clearly where the edge is biting into the wood as I slice rope . ( High wear area )
But I think because the edge was 100% Scandi , No Micro bevel / No Convex .....
Even though the edge had dulled , it was still slicing the paper . ( And I could detect No Edge Roll )
That's just ..................................... !

Where was the Scandi roll ?
I always got Scand roll before ! So I have been wasting my time doing a 5000/10000 grit finish on my Scandi edges ?
Is 320 grit diamond the magic ?
That's 3 Scandi knives in a row that have been seriously improved with the 320 grit diamond cut edge . ( And no Scandi roll )

I mean ......... Even my convex edges roll , my Micro bevels roll ... What the parking lot ?
And the freshly sharpened edge ( 320 ) slices paper with the best .. ( What ? So you can have your cake and eat it )
So this knife has done a previous best of a 200 slice roller .. & Now it has gone 650 and No Roll ! That's ...................................... ( Do some math ) 225% Increase ... That's crazy !

 
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My NKD ... Oh dear / oh dear / oh dear !

The edge was ""FUBAR"" Factory FUBAR ...
I did want to 320 grit the edge ( and I have ) , but the amount of work needed to ?
Neither side matched the other for ANGLE .. Also whom ever ground the scandi edge lingered here and there making hollows everywhere .

I took these pictures about half way cleaning / re profiling the edge . I was hacking away at the blade with 80 grit diamond ( Cos there was a lot of FUBAR to remove )
Don't I just hate taking a closer look at a knife edge ! They really can push out Rubbish sometimes !

1st Picture . Near the tip .. Is a very large hollow created by lingering on the belt (?) grinder . There was one such hollow both sides , but I was able to clean up one side ( Pic2 )
But the angle of the bevel was complete rubbish ..

I was planning to 320 grit test the NKD , but it will have to wait for another day ..

Really / really / really , not looking forward to doing the same to my Brisa Elmax ....
 
So when I'm sharpening for a mirror polish. My grit progression for a full reprofile is fepa f80, f100, f150, f240, jis 400, f400, jis 1k, f800, f1200, f2000, jis 8k, jis15k, jis 30k.

The point I'm attempting to make is just saying what grit you are using doesn't do provide much information since there are different grit rating systems. Your post is two pages long but doesn't include critical information?

This is also another flex that I have a 30k poltava cbn stone. Finer than .5 micron.
 
Critical information ? I guess it started with the beginning of the series ..
First there was Dual Grit Sharpening
Then there was Coarse Grit Sharpening
And now I am Scandi Sharpening ..

Sharpened VIA Guided sharpening ( Video Posted ) Where I describe the process ..
And I am still using the same process ..

Except in this case I had to resort to 80 grit DIAMOND to move material ..
Critical information is there , one merely needs to absorb it or to go to the trouble ..
And I am not polishing ... I clearly state I am going for a 320 grit finish ...
Oh dear / oh dear / oh dear / ................
 
Hmmmmmm , lets see if I can .............................................................. Never Mind !

NKD Timber 95 / 80crV2 Carbon Steel .
Previously 100/150
Carefully hand sharpened 300

Scandi edge was some what corrected ( Still lots of FUBAR left ) Yes , the factory Scandi edge was quite horribly done !
Anyways , what grit was used for making corrections does not matter ..
Because the finished edge is 320 GRIT .......... & Full Scandi / No micro bevel / No convex .
20 passes each way ( 20 one way then 20 the other )
10 passes each way ( yes 320 grit )
5 passes each way
2 passes each way
followed by one pass each way for a total of ten passes ..
Here I check the edge for BUR !!!
If I see any signs of BUR ...
I will do another one pass each way for a total of 10 passes .. ( Which I did )

Then I will cardboard strop till the knife feels smooth on the cardboard and move onto leather stropping .
What I am looking for on the leather is scratching .. If the edge scratches the leather - then it is highly likely that some bur remains !
Back to cardboard stropping , then another leather check !
If there is no scratching , I will do a few passes on soft leather - then slice paper ..
If stropping does not improve smoothness thru the paper , we are done & dusted !

The result = 750 slices ........... From a previous best of 300 ... That's @ 150% more I think ...
ANd when I came inside , the knife did a little better on the paper inside ( crisp and dry ) .
The strop back ! Oh yeah , that edge strops back strong ..
What can I say ? It just looks like ( my ) Scandi likes 320 ..

320 Grit - Diamond sharpener / insert for guided knife sharpeners purchased from Ali for about $5 Ozz Bananas


 
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Oh dear ! Brisa Elmax ( Scandi )
Just how rubbish can a blade be ?
Is Brisa and NKD coming out of the same factory ?
Because the FUBAR looks to be the same !!!!

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Blade edges have been blackened out so we can see where we are sharpening , & how FUBAR the factory edge is .
Folks , don't do this .. Your delusions might be seriously ruined ( in regards to your fav knife ) . Doing this is a serious reality slap in the face !

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Oh yeah ! That be some serious FUBAR ........ Doing both sides at the same angle & .............................................................................................

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The result of about 3 hours work !
And there is still FUBAR ..........
I did another one hour ( maybe more ) today , & I'm all re profiled out ! Yeah , I'm done / no more .....
Did 180 grit Oxide + oil .. It's better butt ! I'm going to leave this 180 grit ( stuff it ) ..
Another McNasty day today anyways , so ill try and show off the edge on the video when the Elmax ( 180 grit oxide ) hits the rope .
 
I think you missed the part where I specified what scale my grits are in. That is the critical missing information in this scenario that could stop me from repeating your process with my stones. I will go from fepa f400 to jis 1k to fepa f800. According to the chart my jis 1k is about a fepa f525 and that seems to check out with the scratch pattern. Here's a pic maybe it will explain better. Only other thing I can offer is not all 320 grit stones are the same grit.
grit chart.png
 
stonemedusa6264 said:
I think you missed the part where I specified what scale my grits are in. That is the critical missing information in this scenario that could stop me from repeating your process with my stones. I will go from fepa f400 to jis 1k to fepa f800. According to the chart my jis 1k is about a fepa f525 and that seems to check out with the scratch pattern. Here's a pic maybe it will explain better. Only other thing I can offer is not all 320 grit stones are the same grit.
View attachment 2209805
Click to expand...
That's a given !

I'm not asking anyone to replicate me ! But simply to maybe experiment to find something that might work better for them ..
My Elmax Scandi will hit the rope @ 180 grit Oxide ... ( It's toothy )
I mean 320 Grit Diamond is just something I settled on by chance ( No rhyme or reason ) , well besides I was testing coarse grit sharpening ! It could easily have been 240 grit .
And next it's 180 grit Oxide because I'm sick of hacking at that Factory FUBAR edge and just removing years of use .. ( Ok , it's a much better looking edge )

And can stone replicate Diamond ? It might be a case of - Got to do your own thing ! I mean / 150% gains / ain't nothing to sneeze at ! So , maybe worth chasing ? If you chase edge retention ?
I'm not here to spoon feed anyone , maybe just kick over a few grey cells !
Just know , these edges are toothy - Micro hacksaw toothy . The 320 was much less toothy and still gave gains .. So nothing is a GIVEN , who knows what the magic grit is or if such a thing exists .
The 320 was finer than the 240 I had been playing with ( Dual grit sharpening and Coarse grit sharpening ) ..
All I can say is , don't over think it ! Do something / test it / and see what the result is !
 
I do my own thing with edges. I'm one of the only people on here that frequently mirror polishes their edges from what I've seen. I agree people should play around and see what works. That said being into sharpening I think theres a lot of people that would like to know what grit scale or specific scale so they could easily replicate it.
 
stonemedusa6264 said:
I do my own thing with edges. I'm one of the only people on here that frequently mirror polishes their edges from what I've seen. I agree people should play around and see what works. That said being into sharpening I think theres a lot of people that would like to know what grit scale or specific scale so they could easily replicate it.
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I have no idea ..... Since !
A) Chinese Diamond sharpeners
B) I don't have any known wet stones ( Cheap Nasty Ones )
C) Cheap oxide inserts ..

Also the grit on these seem Variable ...
Maybe the Chinese print what ever they want on sharpening implements ? Like they do on their blade steels some times .
Go on aliexpress and buy some diamond inserts for guided knife sharpeners .. (?)
I just ordered some more 240/320 a few days ago .. I think I paid about 5 republic bananas for 2 .. Their not expensive , and logically I would say that QC and consistency would be reflected by the price ..
That's why I call the edges toothy or hacksaw like thru paper ..
The edges are toothy enough to tear paper ( 240 grit ) and the 320 grit is smoother .. That's the best I can describe it ..
I would suggest trying what ever floats your boat ! Like maybe 800 grit ..

My own edge testing started around 5000 grit / 10,000 grit .. ( Scandi )
And I slowly brought that down to around 600 grit ..
So going to 320 was a shot in the dark , Cos at the time I was doing 240 grit testing ..
And now with the Elmax ... Going 180 grit oxide + oil ........ That's a big leap from the testing I was doing ( 320 )
But my right arm is sore from all the reprofiling I had to do on the Elmax blade , it's 2 days later and it's still sore . ( Getting old )

This was never meant as a DIY Guide ! But rather sharing my own experiments / results and hopefully firing up some neurons .
Get people thinking outside the box . I have two mirror polished edges on my desk .

One day ! I might have to start mirror polished edge and work my way down to something coarse like 180 / 240 grit and document the edge retention as I go ............. ( One day - in the future - some time - unless some one beats me to it )
Because , a few hundred years ago .. What sort of edges did people run ? Butter smooth polished ? Or maybe a coarse / medium grit that gave better edge retention ?
( Yeah , I think about stuff like that some times ) Because , if I were a Frontiersman ........... I'd want edge retention over looks good ! ( Love you long time / sorry - I mean / Stays sharp long time ! ) But that's just me .

The goal :
Have my cake and eat it !
I want a grit that can slice smoothly & increase edge retention .. ( 320 seems to work with scandi )
But , much more testing is needed ..
For all I know . 400 grit might work , or maybe 500 ?
Or there could be a grit range that works .
So ..... There is room for much more testing ! & I have only started . ( Yes , promising results ) .
And if others are inspired to do some testing , great .
Cos I still haven't tested dual grit any where near enough or coarse grit ..
So much testing that needs to be done .. So much !
 
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Terminology nit pick.
;)
If you are able to fix it…. It can’t possibly be FUBAR since the acronym is F’d Up Beyond Any Repair.
:)
The acronym you’re looking for is
TARFU
Things Are Really F’d Up

:)

As for the lower grit holding it’s edge longer…..
Every knife edge is a saw, the difference is in the size of the teeth.
Polished = finer teeth.

You have found the balance between coarse enough to not roll and fine enough to cut well.

Ages ago Jerry Fisk NLT said he uses a Norton combo stone (coarse & fine) followed by a strop.
Same concept and that works for me :)
 
Interesting results, but I'm totally not into the effort required to maintain a perfect scandi. Anything I've ever tested a non micro beveled scandi on rolls like the dickens and as you've seen, have to remove a lot of material.

Scandi vex for me ;)
 
FUBAR - F 'ed up beyond all reason (?) Or beyond reasonable ! FUBAR is just an expression ... Is it Repair ? / Reason ? / Recognition ? / Not to nit pick !

But I use it to describe awfully bad ! And in a certain movie it was " recognition " .........
 
SwissHeritageCo said:
Interesting results, but I'm totally not into the effort required to maintain a perfect scandi. Anything I've ever tested a non micro beveled scandi on rolls like the dickens and as you've seen, have to remove a lot of material.

Scandi vex for me ;)
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Just depends on those nasty variables ..
If you have rubbish to start with , yeah ! It's a lot of work ( Maybe ) .. Just depends on how much correction you want to make ?
Once a knife is scandi , it should be easy to maintain ..
I'm going to take out another Mora and coarse grit it with stone !
So keep an eye out for that one as it will be hand sharpened and thus follow the contours of what ever the factory laid down . ( As I have done in the past )
Only difference will be coarse grit finish as opposed to going 5000 or 10,000 grit ..
Two stones came today VIA Ali , I think they are 180 grit .. Anyways , plans plans and more plans ..
 
old4570 said:
Just depends on those nasty variables ..
If you have rubbish to start with , yeah ! It's a lot of work ( Maybe ) .. Just depends on how much correction you want to make ?
Once a knife is scandi , it should be easy to maintain ..
I'm going to take out another Mora and coarse grit it with stone !
So keep an eye out for that one as it will be hand sharpened and thus follow the contours of what ever the factory laid down . ( As I have done in the past )
Only difference will be coarse grit finish as opposed to going 5000 or 10,000 grit ..
Two stones came today VIA Ali , I think they are 180 grit .. Anyways , plans plans and more plans ..
Click to expand...

My main cutting medium for a scandi knife is going to be wood. While I enjoy these rope tests for retention purposes in say an edc folder (cardboard edge dulling is real) I think they should fit for purpose.

Still find your efforts interesting though and I'm with you on crazy polished edges being impractical for a number of reasons.
 
Polished edges look good ! And Humans have craved shinny things for 10's of thousands of years . What's it called - Bling !
I have two knives on my table that have bling edges . Both are go to knives at the moment ( ATM ) and I am just seeing how it is to live with polished edges .
So far ? The only real benefit .............. seems to be maintenance . ( Easy to maintain )
How much easier I can't say , but so far they certainly seem to be easier to maintain . ( Not scandi / just conventional edges )
 
Ok . one Morakniv knife sharpened Coarse by hand with a small stone ...
Didn't take that long , feels very hacksaw like thru paper .
The day is gone .. If the weather permits - then on the morrow !
 
Ok , the weather has co operated some today ! And I got to slice some rope .

BAHCO Laplander - Sharpened with small / cheap Chinese stone . Cos the stone is so small , no edge correction will take place .

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With shipping , I paid maybe around $2.50 each for these stones ..
They work fine for me sharpening Scandi ( stone size ) ..
Previously I went 5000 / 10,000 grit .. But these are maybe 180 grit (?) maybe . The add does not give a grit .
Result was a 250 slice fail though .. And no edge correction has taken place this time around ..
I will re sharpen the knife the same way and see if it gets better or worse or makes no difference .

 
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