Scandi grind for outdoor preparedness

Originally Posted by Frederick89: "The 'scandi grind' is a concept made by bushcrafters. If you take a look at scandinavian and finnish blades you'll see all kind of bevels, depending on blade's final use and on maker's preferences/ideas."

Another candidate for the "fallacies" thread....
The moderator of the Scandinavian subforum at British Blades tried to explain the exact same thing that Frederick89 is saying to the forumites at BB, but no one wanted to believe him. I have dozens of knives from Scandinavia and Finland. Not 5% came with a single bevel grind.
 
I like the spyderco bushcraft, bhk bushcrafter, fiddleback, koster, timberwolf and bark river bushcraft.

There are a lot that sell in the knifemakers forum as well. Good luck finding your next blade.
 
pukko is the generic term for a standard traditional Finnish belt knife don;t get hung up on it like "bushcraft knife" it
s just a blanket term.
Kellam makes knives with longer blades as well check out the Kellam tracker that has a 5.6 inch blade.
 
The puukko is a traditional finnish knife for hunting and carving. Even though the word is generally uncorretly used to refer also to scandinavian short bladed knives.

It's worth knowing that Finland is not part of Scandinavia and has different heritage and culture, even if it was under swedish and russian domination during its history.

Back to knives, even if scandinavian and finnish ones are rather similar they are, at last, called in different ways. The puukko equivalents in Sweden are called slidkniv or brukskniv, in Norway brukskniv or tollekniv and in Denmark brugskniv.


All these knives can be dated back to early Middle Age, around the Migration Period and following Viking Age.
At the time the most common style was a simple barrel handle and a straight spined blade. As already said the type of grind and his height can vary quite a lot from smith to smith and from purpouse to purpouse.

Blades were most commonly laminated with iron sides and steel core, beeing good steel rare and very expensive. It's not casual that the european tecnique of pattern welding can be first found in this period, used mostly for swords and seaxes.

Finnish rhombic section is probably more recent, beeing firstly found around 1600, but it's possible that we just have a lack of material to detect an earlier origin.
It was however created reforging sqare files that already gave from themself a hint of the geometry and a good steel too.

The handle materials, like today, were mostly local woods, various deer antler, bovine horn, various metal for bolsters, leather and birch bark.
The most common handle shape was and is the barrel or fish belly one. The more elaborate ones, like fishtail or bird head ones become popular after the 1920s.

A special note must be done on birch bark. Widely used in all Scandinavian and Baltic peninsula for any kind of stuff: from shoes to cups, from boxes to hats, from roof lining to paper, from sheaths to knife handles.
Birch bark is an extremely tough material, water and moisture proof, beeing full of an essencial oil, warm, grippy and velvetly to the touch.
To give an idea of its toughness exist examples of knives where the steel blade is almost completely worn out by rust while the birch bark handle is still solid and in good shape.

Sheaths were and are made of tanned bovine or deer hide. Traditionally back sewed in the centre and with a wood liner, modern swedish sheaths now tends to have the seweing shifted towards one of the sides.
Birch bark sheaths are still sometimes made, even if they seem more common in Finland.


Back on grinds, speaking of living makers, I can tell that scandinavian blades have usually a ricasso and a lower grind, while finnish have a higher grind and very rarely a ricasso.
Grind height depends also on spine thickness and blade geometry and this also is a very personal thing among smiths.
 
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Great post Frederick89, thank you.

X2. Well said.

I think it's also worth noting that a lot of what we now refer to as "Scandi" grinds were originally convexed, unlike many of the "Scandis" available today.
 
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The puukko is a traditional finnish knife for hunting and carving. Even though the word is generally uncorretly used to refer also to scandinavian short bladed knives.

It's worth knowing that Finland is not part of Scandinavia and has different heritage and culture, even if it was under swedish and russian domination during its history.

Back to knives, even if scandinavian and finnish ones are rather similar they are, at last, called in different ways. The puukko equivalents in Sweden are called slidkniv or brukskniv, in Norway brukskniv or tollekniv and in Denmark brugskniv.


All these knives can be dated back to early Middle Age, around the Migration Period and following Viking Age.
At the time the most common style was a simple barrel handle and a straight spined blade. As already said the type of grind and his height can vary quite a lot from smith to smith and from purpouse to purpouse.

Blades were most commonly laminated with iron sides and steel core, beeing good steel rare and very expensive. It's not casual that the european tecnique of pattern welding can be first found in this period, used mostly for swords and seaxes.

Finnish rhombic section is probably more recent, beeing firstly found around 1600, but it's possible that we just have a lack of material to detect an earlier origin.
It was however created reforging sqare files that already gave from themself a hint of the geometry and a good steel too.

The handle materials, like today, were mostly local woods, various deer antler, bovine horn, various metal for bolsters, leather and birch bark.
The most common handle shape was and is the barrel or fish belly one. The more elaborate ones, like fishtail or bird head ones become popular after the 1920s.

A special note must be done on birch bark. Widely used in all Scandinavian and Baltic peninsula for any kind of stuff: from shoes to cups, from boxes to hats, from roof lining to paper, from sheaths to knife handles.
Birch bark is an extremely tough material, water and moisture proof, beeing full of an essencial oil, warm, grippy and velvetly to the touch.
To give an idea of its toughness exist examples of knives where the steel blade is almost completely worn out by rust while the birch bark handle is still solid and in good shape.

Sheaths were and are made of tanned bovine or deer hide. Traditionally back sewed in the centre and with a wood liner, modern swedish sheaths now tends to have the seweing shifted towards one of the sides.
Birch bark sheaths are still sometimes made, even if they seem more common in Finland.


Back on grinds, speaking of living makers, I can tell that scandinavian blades have usually a ricasso and a lower grind, while finnish have a higher grind and very rarely a ricasso.
Grind height depends also on spine thickness and blade geometry and this also is a very personal thing among smiths.

While all good information, it has absolutely nothing to do with the original post. Which was (to summarize) "Hey....I seem to like using this type of grind. Do you have a suggestion for a larger knife with a similar grind?"

This is one of the things that have turned me off to this forum in the past couple years. People post something very specific, a very pointed question, and it has to turn into a debate on whether what he asks for is warranted, the best, the history behind it, etc. Answer the question or don't participate. Want to compare and contrast grinds, and tell all about knife history, start another thread titled as such.

So yeah.....now I am derailing the thread too :) Just had to rant on the soap boxing that seems to have to happen here every time a simple question is asked.

B
 
I think as far as knives with what we have come to call scandi grind here, ones worth checking out are the Aito Puukko like this even though it comes with a slight secondary that you can modify as you wish:

ap4.jpg


The Koster Bushcrafter which in 3v can be pretty much a full scandi nearly zero edge w/o any damage


pick3.jpg


The Skookum Bush Tool is a nice scandi

pick2.jpg


Brian Andrews makes a nice scandi. Here's one he made me with a 3 1/8" blade

bga.jpg


Also here's another small 3 1/8" blade that Adventure Sworn made me

carver6.jpg


If you are into folders the Enzo Birk is a nice one

puk8.jpg
 
:thumbup::thumbup:-To the BG Andrews Scandi's. Mine is my favorite knife!--KV
 
As we have rightly been urged back to the subject of the OP, I thougth I'd post a pic of the affore mentioned EnZo Camper for reference.

D2EnZoCamper1.jpg


Its one I handled from a blade bought direct. It comes in at a tad under 5 inches (125mm).
I convexed this to remove the secondary bevel.

D2EnZoCamper4.jpg


Another thought that comes to mind, if you are looking at traditional knives could be a (lapin-)leuku or sami-kniv.
They typically range from around 5" to 9".

Knivsmed-Strømeng, Järvenpää, Ahti & Roselli are some of the popular names.

It's also worth noting that Mora do some lines that are the kind of length you are talking, from their classic lines (#3) to the KJ Eriksson branded knives (#748).

Maybe you could try one of these more budget models out and see if it fits the bill and/or its of practicable length for your needs....before investing (should you be a knife whore like me and plenty others besides), in a more spendy knife.
 
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Brian, this is the "skills" forum but we are talking about gear.

And the title the OP selected is "Scandi grind for outdoor preparedness." (Is it?)

And we have had the usual multiple understandings of what the "Scandi grind" is. (Hard to discuss a topic without some agreement on terms.)

Thankfully, the Post Purity Police are here to keep us in line, otherwise might be tempted to post about Michigan football. ^___^
 
Roselli makes a nice "carpenters's knife" that I'm currently reviewing. The ergonomics are wonderful, and this is out of their ultra-high carbon steel, whatever that is. It's hardened to about 64 HRC (or so I'm told), and takes and holds a good edge. I really like this, although it's about a 3 inch blade which might be too short for you.

http://s137.beta.photobucket.com/user/sodak_photos/media/P1000714.jpg.html

Speaking just for myself, I appreciate the brief history lesson, Frederick89. I find the evolution of tools through history a fascinating subject!
 
I did try and be specific for what I'm looking for in a new blade so that members could give me the best guidance. I'm learning about knives more than ever since I joined this forum. I do appreciate the history lesson, as I'm still learning. But the suggestions for knives thus far has been very productive and many have given very suitable suggestions.
 
As we have rightly been urged back to the subject of the OP, I thougth I'd post a pic of the affore mentioned EnZo Camper for reference.

D2EnZoCamper1.jpg

I purchased mine in green micarta with a sheath direct from Briza
A great price for a great knife, nicely balenced with a heft to it
I would recommend this for someone that wants a 5" blade

I have purchased Finish blades from Lauri, Polar, and Roselli also Norwiegan blades from Helle and Bussaleto, and Mora
They all have come either with a zero grind or a micro bevel
So I am confused when folk talk about a Zero grind scandi being a modern invention by British bushcrafters


And
I find scandi grinds do cut very differently from flat ground knives
 
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