Scandi Grind/high FLat grind

Z

Zachsfunk49

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Jan 25, 2014
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I have done full flat grinds on my knives before, but I am making a skinning knife and I want to do scandi grind or a high flat grind. What would you recommend either the scandi or the flat, and what proper angle should I be at. Also how far down should I grind before heat treatment?

-Zach
 
For any hard working knife like a skinner, a Scandi will be a problem. A FFG can be res-harpened in seconds, and that can be re-done hundreds of times. Since the bevel is a very low angle, these repeated sharpenings don't make the edge get thick until the blade has been worn back a good bit. A scandi has to have the whole bevel re-ground to be properly sharpened. Most folks don't do that. Instead, they just sharpen the edge only. That effectively makes the knife not a Scandi anymore. Because the bevel angle on a Scandi is higher than a FFG, a few more edge only sharpenings and the edge can get quite thick.
 
If you are skinning, you want good belly and as thin as you can get. FFG... Also what Stacy said is very true. And a well used skinner gets sharpened A LOT.
Your bevel angle depends on steel thickness and the top to bottom section of the knife, spine to edge... There is no 'proper angle' so to speak. 1/8" thick steel is plenty thick, with a nice laser thin primary edge. How far down you can go prior to HT depends on what steel you are using and HT method/quality.

-Eric
 
What many people don't realize is how low the bevel angle actually is ( and why doing one on a jig is difficult to nearly useless).A 1.5" wide 1/4" thick camp chopper ( a real beast) has a FFg angle of 9.6° inclusive ( 4.8° per side). A 1.25" wide skinner blade with a FFG done in 1/8" steel has a 5.8° angle inclusive (2.9° per side). Do that on a 1" wide 1/16" thick fillet blade, and the angle drops to 3.6° inclusive. Many think the final edge angle is smaller than the bevel.......it is the opposite. You are putting on a higher, and thus stronger, angle on a very thin bevel. A FFG allows this to be strong enough to hold up, while the bevel is low enough not to impede cutting. The tradeoff come in designing the overall edge thickness and the edge angle. That is where a camper and a fillet blade greatly differ. The actual bevel angles are only 6° apart.
 
The only thing a Scandi is good at is whitling wood. It excels at this to the point that it has developed an undeserved reputation as a good bushcrafting grind. The problem is that it is absolutely horrible for skinning and food prep. For food prep knives, my go to test is a raw carrot and an onion. The carrot disks will fly all over the counter with a Scandi knife and you really have to baton it through that onion. In addition, the edge is the weakest of them all, so batonning and chopping are questionable IMO. Add to this the agonizing sharpening/edge maintainance process and it really suprises me that it ever became a fad. The truth IMO is that it was an economical grind to manufacture and that was the sole reason for its development eons ago.

The angle is 12.5 degrees per side for a Scandi. I only grind mine on 1/8" thick steel. Since the heat of the fad has died down I only make two a month or so. I grind them with a simple 12.5 degree wedge that gets clamped to the rest. Any primate can do this, it is a zero skill grind. The only real consideration is that the bevel grinds are totaly in one plane. If they are not it will show the first time the customer puts it to a stone. I do it when the knife is already complete and ready for pics. 5 minutes on the jig, done. Don't get it hot. Remember that the finer the belts, the quicker the heat gets generated. I start with a used 80 grit belt running fast and then jump to a 400 with the grinder running all the way slow.

I don't trust Scandi grinds, and I have never carried one out into the woods. I've had a few come back for edge rolling or chipping. I kept one and sent it in to a lab. They tested the RC in several spots and it came back 59-60. They took a pic and it was pretty martensite. Not enough steel to charpy. I figured the customer hit a knot. I made him a new knife. I kept the next one and re-ground it convex, then put an edge bevel on the convex like I usually do. This knife is still stuck in a tree by my woodpile and has been used to whittle slivers off my fatwood and baton clear grained Oak down to kindling for over a year. I've never had any edge damage, and haven't re-sharpened it. Its needs to be sharpened now, but the edge has held up well.
 
I am sure the Scandi vs Convex crowd may have differing opinions than above but the FFG is likely the skinner of choice as above.
 
For a 12.5° Scandi in 1/8" steel, the grind is .6" high. Both sides of that whole .6" needs to be placed flat on the stone EVERY time it is sharpened. It works great for whittling because it is a wedge. The same makes it a poorer choice for most every other task that requires cutting/slicing ability.

I never understood the fad for Scandi blades, as a FFG or a convex will perform as good or better...and can be kept at that performance level much easier..

I am glad to hear that the Scandi craze is mellowing out. I guess the guys that bought them have finally had to sharpen them and seen the inherent problem.


BTW, when a Scandi is sharpened at the edge with a secondary bevel, it is called a Sabre ( saber) grind. Super tough edge, but not a slicer at all.
 
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