scandi grind total edge angle too low...maybe?

samuraistuart

samuraistuart

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Dec 21, 2006
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I have made my first scandi grind blade out of the latest 1/8" W2 batch. I believe I have gotten the total angle too low....right at 13 degrees. 6.5 per side. Wasn't entirely trying to go that low. Maybe 15, but moving material from the bevels pushed my grind line up further than I would have liked, lowering the overall angle. What is your opinion on my knife's angle of 13 degrees total angle? I know the steel and heat treat plays a decent factor in how low you can get. W2, kiln heat treated. 1450F for 15 minutes into room temp P50. Tempered 360F 1 hour. 400f two hours. 430F two hours. Impressed with how the W2 came out of the quench.

I am thinking that 13 degrees, even with awesome steel and heat treat, is too low. Microbevel might be the best thing here. I'm not too sure about micro bevels, I'll have to read up on them.

Thank you for your thoughts! (It's not done! Excuse the finish. It's only at 400 right now, and I'd like to go to at least 1800 on the bevels, as they form the edge, and I want a fine edge. I may be doing too much in that alone....IDK?)

Stu

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If memory serves me right, I read an article on a folding bushcraft knife made by Daniel Koster. It too was a scandi grind, but I believe that the grind bevels were 13* per side.

I'll try to find the link.
 
That's what I was afraid of. But I could have sworn in my research that I came across an article or two concerning zero grinds on scandi blades, and that some of the older puukko's had a total of 15 degrees. But then I have seen articles, or specs of a given knife if you will, that say around 15 per side....which of course....makes a huge difference. I'll just test it out. If it needs it.....I'll put a micro bevel on there. It seems that scandi grinds are not all that popular, but I have never used a knife with a scandi grind to a zero edge, so just HAD to make one. You know how it goes! I saw Cody Lundeen on Dual Survival use his puukko knife to cut into wood, and I was impressed with the apparent ease and efficiency the scandi/zero combo offered......into wood at least. Still, my favorite grind has got to be the full flat.
 
The only issue I see with a scandi that thin is going to be its durability. Any moderate bushcrafty tasks might put a chip in the blade and be a pain to sharpen out.
 
The included angle is typically 25 degrees. 12.5 per side. Yours is a bit high and an edge bevel would be appropriate.
 
Just add a small secondary ( edge ) bevel at 10-12° per side....problem solved.

With the high primary bevel, it should be an excellent cutter.
 
Thanks Stacy. That's what I am going to have to do. I should have done MORE research on this project, as I was really wanting to have an absolute zero grind blade to test out. Oh well, can't make 'em perfect EVERY single time!
 
Stuart,
I know scandi fans love to talk about the "Zero" edge grind...but in actuality, virtually every one has a small secondary. Unless a very high edge angle is used, a zero edge is unstable and would break down quickly. Even if you made it a true zero edge, it would have a small secondary the first time you touched it up on a stone.
 
samuraistuart said:
Thanks Stacy. That's what I am going to have to do. I should have done MORE research on this project, as I was really wanting to have an absolute zero grind blade to test out. Oh well, can't make 'em perfect EVERY single time!
Click to expand...

I can't make them perfect ANY time lol!
 
I grind a fair number of scandis and range between 12.5 and 15 degrees, most are 13 - 26 inclusive. That said Rc, steel type and spine thickness should play role in the choosing of the angle. Best way to discover the right combination for your purpose is to simply use it and experiment. It will give far better feedback than our words ever could.
 
WOW, Shane. Thanks for that. I KNOW I read somewhere that some puukkos had an edge of 15 total. 7.5 per side. But then again, I went into that research LOOKING for what I wanted to see!!! I shouldn't have done that! But your post has given me new hope. I have yet to test the blade out, as most of my time is now geared towards a blue steel kitchen knife order, and I have set that knife aside. As far as the dimensions, it is Aldo's 1/8" W2, the blade is about 1 1/8" tall, and each bevel is at ~6.5 degrees. I tempered the W2 higher than I normally do, I went to 430F, hoping to have that perfect balance between toughness and edge retention. I am just going to have to take the blade out and test it!!! Thanks for all the input to everyone!!!
 
Again just try what you like but the woodlore, Koster's, and many other well known scandi's are within the the range I posted. I agree with Koster on liking .140 thick stock. Fiddleback is correct as well as 6.5 is too steep IMHO for a zero grind. Stacy is right as rain with the micro secondary too, almost a slight convex micro after strophing.

I apologize if this is redundant but just to be sure we are both on the same sheet of music here when I say I grind most between the range of 12.5 to 15 degrees that is per side and not the inclusive ( total angle) 26-30 degrees is the inclusive and it changes depending on what the customer wants.
 
Stu,
There are no rules! if you find a degree of angle that works for your intended purpose of the knife.
That's all that matters.
 
I know there aren't any "rules" per se, but there is experience others have that I don't. Since I have ZERO experience with a ZERO edge, I wanted a good number to start with. I went into the research actually wanting to find a guy that said, "My puukkos are 15 degree total angle....and they'll cut through a redwood with one slice". OK, maybe not THAT good! :)

Shane, you've got me confused now! You said, "I grind a fair number of scandis and range between 12.5 and 15 degrees, most are 13 - 26 inclusive." and then you said, "I grind most between the range of 12.5 to 15 degrees that is per side and not the inclusive."

So I'm curious as to which is correct? 15 degrees per side? Or 15 degrees TOTAL? Wait a minute, I think I get it. I think you mis-typed 13-26, when you meant to say 23-26 inclusive.

I don't mean to beat a dead horse here. I know the best answer to my question is "test it yourself". But, just like heat treating, it is nice to start with good info!!!
 
Yes. I chose 12.5 degrees per side for my fixture. 25 degrees inclusive.
 
I just meant that 13-26 was 13 Degrees or 26 inclusive. Sorry for the confusion. Like Stacy said.
 
Thanks so much for all the replies. I think I've got it now! If not, I have problems! Well......I've got problems anyway....but that's another story!
 
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