Scandi with secondary bewel.

C

cbarth

Joined
Oct 26, 2016
Messages
7
Hi guys,

This is my first post on this forum.

Since I'm Norwegian I have grown up with scandi grind knives like Helle, Brusletto and Mora, for both work and hobby use.

I have some edc folders (SAK, Opinel, CS), but thought it would be fun to have a full size scandi folder. So I ordered an Eka Swede 10 wood. I got it home and it looked great, very nice finish, good lock and REALLY sharp. But to my surprice I found that there was a secondary bevel on scandi grind.

But I thought since it is shaving sharp, and can push-cut through paper like nobody's business, it would be great out in the woods. Wrong!!!

Like I said, I have never had a knife with this kind of grind, but for me and my use it sucks. My Mora and Helle knives bites in the wood with a totally different feeling, and making feather sticks sooo easy compared to this Eka, even if they are much duller.

I spent quite some time with it, trying different techniques. I even stropped it to the point where it is scary to open and close in case of fingers touching the blade. Testing it on paper and hair on my forearm is just ridiculous, I have never had the need to have a knife this sharp, but still it is a no-go for me...

Is just my technique, or is it the blade geometry?

Any of you that have experience of going from a regular scandi to a scandi with secondary bewel?
 
I would guess blade geometry; a higher grind and/or thinner blade would bite better, Opinel, for example. Looks like a good rugged knife, though.
 
I've used various makers of Nordic knives and have crafted over a hundred using Lauri, Lauri PT, Brusletto, Mora (old laminated), Helle laminated, etc.

I've done total flat to the edge grinds/hones and flat with a very slight secondary bevel. My experience is that while a total flat grind/hone will be a wee bit sharper, it doesn't hold up as well as with a slight secondary bevel. When I sharpen my blades, I do a total flat to the edge and then a couple backwards strokes on the strop for a secondary bevel. Is just a sharp and holds the edge longer IMHO.

Forgot: If you want a great Scandi folder, get an Enzo Birk with Scandi grind in D2 steel. Expensive, but it's a life time knife. I have one with curly birch scales and it's my favorite knife (folder).

Rich
 
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Slight almost invisible secondary bevel on scandis is the best,and easy to touch up in field.It bites into wood like crazy too.I also raise the primary bevel on most of my scandis with belt sander,cuts much better,some scandis are ground this way from factory or maker,but some like mora and few others are not,and they perform so much better with these mods,(slight invisible secondary,and raised primary grind)!
 
Q: Bevel or technique?

A: Both.


I too find a slight but still noticeable difference between a "pure" zero-grind Scandi with no micro-bevel and one that has a micro-bevel or... better to my liking, a convexed apex.

Several things...

One, the difference, while noticeable, is nowhere near as big as the difference of either compared to a thin full flat grind or worse (for wood working) a thin hollow grind.

Second, I find my technique has evolved with convexed blades, just as my ski technique and cycling techniques (just in from an OK ride) have evolved with certain skis, boots and bikes. I don't think we can or should try to separate the tool from the user in our thinking.

Three, I find the place I notice the difference in making feather sticks is in the second half of a stroke. I can start a feather with any knife. Keeping it on till the end and getting a nice curl is another. It requires some adjustment in my wrist but there is a limit to how much I can adjust. I find that pure Scandis tend to dive on me and I can adjust and control the feather with a convexed blade and apex. YMMV, obviously.

Four, I find pure Scandi more prone to edge damage and harder to sharpen due to the amount of material you need to remove. Your difficulty in removing the micro bevel shows this. But... again, technique.... I can't stand sharpening pure scandi blades and find it easy and natural to sharpen a convex blade. First thing I do with my Moras is to convex them!

If you are more comfortable with a pure Scandi, it looks like you have some quality time with a bench stone waiting for you!
 
Which ever way you decide to sharpen your Scandi, remember it is always easier to do a touch up honing on a sharp knife than to do a total resharpening on a really dull one. Keep your blades sharp. Personally, even though I keep my blades sharp, I enjoy honing/sharpening them. It is like Zen meditation for me (but some folks also consider me a total knife nut :-)

Rich
 
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I would grind the secondary bevel out to a "scandi" grind then add a tiny microbevel. To me, these pure "scandi" grinds are too thin and chip out in my uses. Hence the microbevel.

Plan on spending a lot of time sharpening it out though.
 
Thanks for the tips guys.
Looks like I'm in for some quality time with my benchstones then! :D
 
In the pics I'm seeing of the Swede 10 it looks like the primary bevels are hollow ground. If that's the case, I don't know if you'd be able to grind it to a true Scandi profile and still have a decent amount of steel behind the edge.
 
G. Scott H. said:
In the pics I'm seeing of the Swede 10 it looks like the primary bevels are hollow ground. If that's the case, I don't know if you'd be able to grind it to a true Scandi profile and still have a decent amount of steel behind the edge.
Click to expand...

Yup, the product description on several sites lists it as hollow ground.
 
jimmyd1982 said:
Yup, the product description on several sites lists it as hollow ground.
Click to expand...


Nope, mine is without a doubt scandi with a bevel...

I think I might just get a TBS Boar folder, and save me from all the hazzle. Too bad with that Eka, I really thought this could be a go-to heavy folder for me...
 
I just wanted to say that now that I have modified the grind (a LOT of work) to a plain scandi grind, this have actually become my all time favorite knife.

Since the modification is made all by hand, it's probably ever so tiny, slightly convex. But that doesn't matter for me now, it behaves perfect for me. I wish I could post a video just to show how sharp this thing is. It is much sharper than either my carbon Mora or Opinel, and they are both shaving sharp.

It is a lot more time consuming to get an edge on this stainless Eka, but it takes an edge like no other knife I have ever had. It feels like the steel is ultra fine grained.
Never would have thought a stainless steel could have this feeling to it. Eka probably have a very good heat treatment om this Sandvik 12C27. My Mora's, Helle's or Brusletto's in stainless is nowhere near this.

Anyways, just some biased feedback from a happy camper:D
 
Helle knives come with a slight secondary bevel.

IIsakki Jarvenpa ditto.

Brusletto ditto.

Every single custom I have from Scandinavia or Finland (17 this far - love 'em) did not come "Scandi" due to one or several of many features that do not fit the official definition. What would Tuominen or Jankala know about "proper" knives? Perhaps a lot.

My wife's grandfather was a professional wood carver in German and for Pullman coach company. Secondary convex bevels on all his knives.
 
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