Scandinavian Grind--Secondary Bevel or Not?

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Evany

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May 7, 2007
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Any thoughts on the benefits, or lack of benefits, of a secondary bevel on this type of blade? I was wondering whether to use my Spyderco Sharpmaker sticks on a traditional Swedish blade. Also, if one had a choice of blade grind in a traditional Scandinavian knife, would it be better to go with say a flat grind?
 
Put the sharpmaker sticks on the bottom of the case and use it like a regular stone, way easier than trying to create some kind of secondary bevel...
 
I read a knife making book from the library that addressed this question quite well. The maker seemed to specialize in this type of knife and had several different blade shapes with zero bevel grinds. He recommended woodworking edges (as in bushcraft woodwork) have no secondary bevel, but for utility and hunting work, a small secondary bevel was preferred. Basically, if your uses damage a blade without a secondary bevel, either by excessive rolling, chipping, or other, a secondary edge is preferred. He said the secondary bevel shouldnt be more than 1/64" wide. So, if you have a knife with a knife with this kind of edge, and your uses dont damage it, I'd stick with it. If they do, or you want to cut down on sharpening time, then a small secondary bevel will strengthen the edge and allow quick touch up sharpenings between major metal removal sessions. I have only one knife like this, and it has a convex scandinavian grind instead of the usual flat grind. For the shop and kitchen work I did with it, this edge was adequate and did not show signs of damage after about a month. I did add a secondary bevel just to make sharpenings faster. My secondary bevel is very small, almost invisible without ideal lighting. It doesnt seem to reduce cutting ability, and I can get a razor edge in a few swipes of the 20 degree slots on the Sharpmaker.
 
me2 said:
Basically, if your uses damage a blade without a secondary bevel, either by excessive rolling, chipping, or other, a secondary edge is preferred.....

My secondary bevel is very small, almost invisible without ideal lighting. It doesnt seem to reduce cutting ability, and I can get a razor edge in a few swipes of the 20 degree slots on the Sharpmaker.
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Some folks refer to thickening up the edge, almost invisible to the naked eye, like this a "micro bevel". I guess if the edge is still rolling because of the tasks it is doing the next step would be to re profile the the edge completely or use a different knife. I might be wrong but on other knives I think of the 30 degree Sharpmaker as the secondary bevel and the 20 degree as a micro bevel. That being said, on my favorite scandi the grind is about 30 degrees and I started to pass it through the 20 to firm it up a little.
 
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The benefit of a scandi grind is that it essentially has a really steep angled edge, making it incredibly sharp. The problem with it is as me2 describes. The scandi will require much more metal to be removed if you have to restore a damaged edge and want to keep the scandi grind, rather than putting a secondary bevel on it.
 
I like mine ground-to-zero....then just a whisper's touch on the SHarpmakers fine stones.

What I do is sharpen the Scandi grind on an 800 waterstone. I grind it down to zero each time. The final passes are one per side, fairly light, to try and get any wire edge off. When the knife is sharp!, I take it to the Sharpmaker - white fine stones in the 30deg holes (this is just a degree or two more than the flat Scandi grind on my EnZos and Helles). With no more than a whispers touch, I'll take five or seven per side of the lightest passes you can imagine on the stones.

Except for one Bark River mini-Canadian, all of my scandi ground knives are noticeably sharper than any of the rest of my knives, no matter how they're sharpened. The Helles and Enzos will effortlessly pop hairs of my arm or back of hand. Frighteningly sharp. I caution people not to look at the edge, the same way we are cautioned not to look at the flash of a nuclear explosion... ((( :D )))
 
All of my Mora knives came new with a secondary bevel and I use a Sharpmaker to maintain them. It works for me.

I have heard that a true zero ground scandi is better for working with wood, but I don't feel the need to try one.
 
Let's say I have a Mora Classic scandi grind knife. I add a micro bevel. I dull it. What do I sharpen now - only the micro bevel?
 
A few years back I had a discussion here on a matter of Scandi and I remember it became quite heated by the end. And my point was that Scandi edge gets more easily damaged and then you have to remove more material while re-sharpening so overall it is more difficult to maintain. And then another guy shared pictures of his Scandi blades that have obviously never been re-sharpened or even used and some other users chimed in with that "secondary bevel" thing which all made it quite pointless. So I decided it was not worthwhile to discuss Scandi as it seemed to be many things to many people and who was I to judge. So just try for yourself what suits you better. I personally go for no secondary bevel. But since I sharpen it free hand I assume it is slightly convex, if that matters to anybody.
 
If you chip out a traditional scandi edge, you will be removing much material to remove the damage, as it has been said. I reserve what few zero grind scandi's I have left just for soft wood, and I am very gentle with when I do use them, simply because I do not enjoy sharpening. Secondary or Micro bevels, as well as convex edges are really the way to go, in my opinion, because I do not worry about damage from hard use.

All of mine will eventually have convex edges.
 
me2 said:
I'd probably resharpen the whole bevel, then do a new micro bevel.
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That's what I tought. But I'm afraid it would take a long time and remove a lot of material, as AWGunS said here ... :(

AWGunS said:
If you chip out a traditional scandi edge, you will be removing much material to remove the damage, as it has been said. I reserve what few zero grind scandi's I have left just for soft wood, and I am very gentle with when I do use them, simply because I do not enjoy sharpening. Secondary or Micro bevels, as well as convex edges are really the way to go, in my opinion, because I do not worry about damage from hard use. All of mine will eventually have convex edges.
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OK! :) But HOW would I sharpen the microbevel? Should I just pick an angle (for example, the angle I usually sharpen my Victorinoxes is about 20 degrees per side) and use that? (I use carborundum stone for sharpening btw.)

Poez said:
A few years back I had a discussion here on a matter of Scandi and I remember it became quite heated by the end. And my point was that Scandi edge gets more easily damaged and then you have to remove more material while re-sharpening so overall it is more difficult to maintain. And then another guy shared pictures of his Scandi blades that have obviously never been re-sharpened or even used and some other users chimed in with that "secondary bevel" thing which all made it quite pointless. So I decided it was not worthwhile to discuss Scandi as it seemed to be many things to many people and who was I to judge. So just try for yourself what suits you better. I personally go for no secondary bevel. But since I sharpen it free hand I assume it is slightly convex, if that matters to anybody.
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I'm sure there was quite the discussion. :mad::)
 
I simply put a secondary bevel on a very worn edge. It required several touch ups, but as the edge worked its way back up the 'scandi' angle, you get a larger secondary bevel. At some point, it will require a reprofile.

I will say I am in no way an expert at angles, It's just seat of the pants for me. If it works, it works. If it doesnt, then I change it. Don't ask me what angle it is, because I really don't measure.

I am looking into sharpeners that will indicate angles, but I haven't pulled the trigger, based solely on prices...
 
I’ve gone back and forth on this issue. I now stay with the zero grind and have not seen any issues (in limited use). The Scandi blades I use are in the 4” range so they don’t see any hard use. They are in steels like 3v, and the Sandvik steels.

If a micro bevel is added, wouldn’t it eventually create a very wide secondary bevel? If harder use is a possibility, why not use a different knife/grind.
 
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I have several Pfeil Swiss Made Detail knives (#1 & #11), but can’t figure out how to sharpen them. I can’t tell if they are supposed to have a secondary bevel, or I should sharpen the entire blade. I sharpen many others easily (FlexCut, OCC, even BeaverCraft), but very frustrated with the Pfeil. Any input would Greatly appreciated! Kindest regards!
 
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