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what is the diffrence between scandinavian single bevel and flat grinds? also, is the spine the highest part of the thickest part, or the whole thick part? thanks
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scandinavian single bevel
- Thread starter blademan312
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so technicly on the scandinavian, theres 2 bevels, one from the spine, and one from the first bevel? am i wrong?
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The best way to describe a scandanavian knife is - a sabre grind with a single bevel - the grind does not extend the whole width of the blade usually about 40-50%. To my knowledge most of them are made this way due to the use of laminated steel which leaves the hardened steel exposed just at the edge of the blade. They are sharp but take some getting used to if you are used to flat ground or hollow ground blades. Traditionally the hardened centre of the laminate is around 60-62rc or more in the case of some Rosellis I have used.
nozh2002
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In general scandinavian knives have no secondary bevel and grind - it is one bevel and grind at same time, and it is flat - not saber. However some scandinavian production blades (Lauri) have very small - less then 0.5mm almost invisible secondary bevel.
2 JDEEBLADE
What model of Roselly do you have? They made it from carbon steel, UHC and even wootz.
Helle, Brusletto, Frosts of Mora, Fallkniven (in Sekicut Japan) are making laminated blades to my knowlege. They have different kind of steel in core and on a sides. Helle have kitchenware stainless on a sides, for example.
As i understand in finland they prefers zone hardening ws. laminated.
Thanks, Vassili.
2 JDEEBLADE
What model of Roselly do you have? They made it from carbon steel, UHC and even wootz.
Helle, Brusletto, Frosts of Mora, Fallkniven (in Sekicut Japan) are making laminated blades to my knowlege. They have different kind of steel in core and on a sides. Helle have kitchenware stainless on a sides, for example.
As i understand in finland they prefers zone hardening ws. laminated.
Thanks, Vassili.
If you want to look excellent but reasonably priced handmade/custom puukkos with traditional blade styles (incl. single bevels):
http://users.reppu.net/j.hankala/
It should be clear what puukko grind is.
http://users.reppu.net/j.hankala/
It should be clear what puukko grind is.
Cliff Stamp
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blademan312 :
Scandiavian bevels are flat grinds, they are just partial blade height or sabre grinds. Fully flat ground blades like the Spyderco Military have the grind extending full blade height.
The top of the blade.
-Cliff
Scandiavian bevels are flat grinds, they are just partial blade height or sabre grinds. Fully flat ground blades like the Spyderco Military have the grind extending full blade height.
The top of the blade.
-Cliff
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To NOZH2002
What I said may have been misleading. I have a Roselli Carpenter. Roselli-UHC (1.5%-2% carbon) steel whereas my Brusletto's have laminated carbon steel (I have both types of blades the black and the polished which I imported from Norway as blades and handled myself). Some of the literature out here refers to scandanavian blades as a modified V and states "In the sharpening process a full centimetre wide flat surface (the grind) is in contact with a course .. stone. With the V grind restored or maintained, the edge can be honed to razor-sharpness on a fine stone at an angle of 30 degrees>" KNIVES AUSTRALIA summer 2002 (our one and only knife mag).
Any help.
Regards.
(like my sheepie???)
What I said may have been misleading. I have a Roselli Carpenter. Roselli-UHC (1.5%-2% carbon) steel whereas my Brusletto's have laminated carbon steel (I have both types of blades the black and the polished which I imported from Norway as blades and handled myself). Some of the literature out here refers to scandanavian blades as a modified V and states "In the sharpening process a full centimetre wide flat surface (the grind) is in contact with a course .. stone. With the V grind restored or maintained, the edge can be honed to razor-sharpness on a fine stone at an angle of 30 degrees>" KNIVES AUSTRALIA summer 2002 (our one and only knife mag).
Any help.
Regards.
(like my sheepie???)
Cliff Stamp
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Labels / questions referring to how a knife is ground generally are in reference to the primary grind which controls the overall shape of the knife. There may also be a distint secondary or edge bevel which is of a different profile.
For example a knife will be called hollow ground when the main shaping bevel is hollow. The edge will have either a flat or convex grind. The knife can be sabre-hollow if the primary grind is not very high, or just hollow or full hollow if it goes very high and is close to the spine.
Many modern puukkos also have a distinct secondary edge bevels, Finnish ones in particular as was recently discussed on rec.knives. See "Is there any "puukko" fans out there?" with comments specifically by Juha Sakkinen.
-Cliff
For example a knife will be called hollow ground when the main shaping bevel is hollow. The edge will have either a flat or convex grind. The knife can be sabre-hollow if the primary grind is not very high, or just hollow or full hollow if it goes very high and is close to the spine.
Many modern puukkos also have a distinct secondary edge bevels, Finnish ones in particular as was recently discussed on rec.knives. See "Is there any "puukko" fans out there?" with comments specifically by Juha Sakkinen.
-Cliff
nozh2002
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As I understand the puukko is always finnish - more then this it is thin long blade knife, there are also leuku - big finnish knife and lapplander in between. All other scandinavian knives have different names - Helle never call knives - puukko. And they they have different design, as I understand.
Tommy, please, can you clearify this - Is in puukko mean knife in general or just some kind of knives?
Thanks, Vassili.
Tommy, please, can you clearify this - Is in puukko mean knife in general or just some kind of knives?
Thanks, Vassili.
I believe the Leuku is a Lapp design. The Lapp's range covered all of Northern Scandinavia, Northern Finland and the Kola peninsula in Russia. The reason I point this out is that these cultures predate the current international boundaries, and that is probably why definitions are a bit fuzzy. I've seen evidence that Puukko style knives were also common in Estonia, which is right across the Baltic sea from Finland.
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Gets more interesting. I believe "Puuko" means knife and correctly should only be applied to Finnish knives usually the small bladed knife. Leuko is the Sami knife. I believe there are other Scandanavian words for a knife similar to a Puuko one of them I believe is "Tommi".
nozh2002
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What I heart - Tommy was English smith who come to Finland and teach them how to temper steel in oil - long repeated process... This starts line of Tommi knives, but it is just one kind of puukko. One of the best Finnish knifemaker - Jukka Hankala has Tommi, Pehtori, Lastu, Toijala etc. models:
http://users.reppu.net/j.hankala/englanti/etusivu/front_page.htm
(I just got big Tommi blade from him)
Other very interesting website about traditional finnish knives:
http://www.kainuunpuukko.com/english/index.htm
Finnish knives are very appretiated in Russia - finka, the russian name for it. The nost widely used in a battle military knife - WWII russian commando knife was replica of knife used by finnish army in Winter War.
http://knifemagazine.ru/pr3/12.php3
Thanks, Vassili.
http://users.reppu.net/j.hankala/englanti/etusivu/front_page.htm
(I just got big Tommi blade from him)
Other very interesting website about traditional finnish knives:
http://www.kainuunpuukko.com/english/index.htm
Finnish knives are very appretiated in Russia - finka, the russian name for it. The nost widely used in a battle military knife - WWII russian commando knife was replica of knife used by finnish army in Winter War.
http://knifemagazine.ru/pr3/12.php3
Thanks, Vassili.
Puukko is a certain kind of knife. Puukko is not limited to small blades (although it is the common situation) there are bigger puukkos. I've seen up to 30 cm blades but those are odd looking as blade in puukko is never broader than handle.
Quite a few knives that are not puukkos are made in Finland. Leuku for one is not a puukko but I wouldn't call it 'knife' - it is a leuku. Basically all knives that are not puukkos or leukus are called 'knives'. Knives are coming more popular here because some buyers want different appearance but are not willing to pay extra for good looking custom puukkos.
BTW I spotted a Tommi puukko in Finnish morning TV four hours ago. There was a short program of making a 'vihta' for midsummer sauna. I bet that the puukko was made by Jukka Hankala as it clearly was Tommi Puukko and the maker of vihta came from Ikaalinen - Jukka Hankalas home district.
Quite a few knives that are not puukkos are made in Finland. Leuku for one is not a puukko but I wouldn't call it 'knife' - it is a leuku. Basically all knives that are not puukkos or leukus are called 'knives'. Knives are coming more popular here because some buyers want different appearance but are not willing to pay extra for good looking custom puukkos.
BTW I spotted a Tommi puukko in Finnish morning TV four hours ago. There was a short program of making a 'vihta' for midsummer sauna. I bet that the puukko was made by Jukka Hankala as it clearly was Tommi Puukko and the maker of vihta came from Ikaalinen - Jukka Hankalas home district.
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as far as my knowlegde goes ( and that isn't very far 
) most commercial knives, if you would look at a craossection, always consist of 2 lines.
1. a type of grind ( saber, flat, hollow, convex..)
2. a type of edge - they do sharpen the blades after they're done.
For example, a katana, isn't sharpened in that sense, the grinding itself = the sharpening, as there is no extra bevel made. The main saber grind = the bevel. That's called a zero-edge I believe.
if you would for example, a spydie military, sharpen it as you usually do, you create a kinda saber grind, the edge, an angle and the flat grind.
Now if you would *not* sharpen it that way, but simply flatten the entire blade, you'd get a extremely low angle cutting edge, not good edgeholding, but it would be beyond scary sharp.
Puuko's are usually sharpened like that, the main grind = the cutting edge. I've seen people sharpen them by simply flattening the entire grind a bit.
That explain the awsome cutting power ( besides plain good steel), an angle drags always when you're cutting. So theoretical, cutting edges itself are a bad idea, you'd better simply flatten the blade or grind a bit untill it's sharp. If you've ever sharpened wood chisels, you know that any angle will be desastrous for your work.. it must be smooth and fluent.
This also explain why convex edges are usually sharper, they simply have no angle between edgebevel and blade grind.
OK enough rambling about cutting edges.. back to exams
seeya around folks
greetz and take care, bart.
) most commercial knives, if you would look at a craossection, always consist of 2 lines. 1. a type of grind ( saber, flat, hollow, convex..)
2. a type of edge - they do sharpen the blades after they're done.
For example, a katana, isn't sharpened in that sense, the grinding itself = the sharpening, as there is no extra bevel made. The main saber grind = the bevel. That's called a zero-edge I believe.
if you would for example, a spydie military, sharpen it as you usually do, you create a kinda saber grind, the edge, an angle and the flat grind.
Now if you would *not* sharpen it that way, but simply flatten the entire blade, you'd get a extremely low angle cutting edge, not good edgeholding, but it would be beyond scary sharp.
Puuko's are usually sharpened like that, the main grind = the cutting edge. I've seen people sharpen them by simply flattening the entire grind a bit.
That explain the awsome cutting power ( besides plain good steel), an angle drags always when you're cutting. So theoretical, cutting edges itself are a bad idea, you'd better simply flatten the blade or grind a bit untill it's sharp. If you've ever sharpened wood chisels, you know that any angle will be desastrous for your work.. it must be smooth and fluent.
This also explain why convex edges are usually sharper, they simply have no angle between edgebevel and blade grind.
OK enough rambling about cutting edges.. back to exams
seeya around folks
greetz and take care, bart.