Schatt and Morgan Mountain Man x 2

2manyknives

2manyknives

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Aug 9, 2006
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Here are 2 new examples of the Mountain Man lockback folder by Schatt and Morgan.





The Queen Mountain is a big lockback that has been offered by Queen for quite some time – mostly in D2 blade steel. A similar knife was available in limited quantities under the Schatt and Morgan label but usually in ATS34 with different grip scale materials. The pattern is very much like that offered by Remington in its lockback folders, often in its Bullet Knife series. (Queen also has an option without the lock)

I love the pattern and it has long been my favourite traditional knife style – it doesn’t just look good but is practical as well and makes for a great all round bush knife.

It’s not all good news – the Queen Mountain Man has a reputation for wobbly blades. The first one I ever owned was so bad that I refused to use it. Sometime later I picked up another in Curly Zebra wood that is just so sweet – a beautiful smooth action with positive lockup and barely any movement.

That brings me to the 2 knives presented here – Schatt and Morgans – one in amber stag and the other in antique bone. These are recent offerings and I have had them now for around 2 months. How do they measure up?




The blade steel is D2 which is a shift for S&M. I like D2 but would have been equally happy with ats34 – both are very good steels.

Visual inspection shows no obvious flaws in workmanship. Fit and finish is good for a factory knife. Both open smoothly. I find the bone a lot more attractive than the amber stag. I understand that the model is also available in natural stag and I might keep an eye out for one. Curiously, the inside of the brass liners seems to be engraved with some type of pattern – not sure if this is an S & M thing. Does anyone else know?

Neither knife was particularly sharp out of the box but generally better than most Queen products.




What about lockup and blade play? Talk about hit and miss. The bone version is pretty good – virtually no lateral play and minimal vertical movement. The stag knife is bad – plenty of movement in both planes and the vertical play is quite excessive.

In summary – truly stylish knives made from quality materials. They are eminently practical for most outdoor purposes. Unless you feel the need for the fastest opening blade in town they will hold their own with the best of modern folding blades. Excessive blade play is not a universal failing but is still something that needs to be considered when shopping for these knives.


Here they are with some others in the same pattern by GEC, Boker, Queen, Camillus and Remington/Camillus. The Boker is made in China and the rest are US made knives.

 
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Your S&M antique bone is simply stunning...What a beautiful knife. Your others are very nice, but that antique bone just trips my trigger.

TC

EDIT: After a search, I found one and it's on it's way to me. Thank you for sharing..TC
 
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Thanks for the review as I have had an itchy trigger finger as of late just waiting to pull on either of these models. While well aware of past blade play issues with the previous versions I was hoping these latest S&M versions would have these problems solved. I guess not, which is really too bad considering they are both very handsome knives with a great steel. I was looking for a large lockback to accompany me for longterm weekend carry and thought this knife to be the perfect candidate. While I still feel a good one could fill that role, I don't feel as I want to take the chance of getting one with sub-par lock-up.
 
I appreciate your thoughts, and observations. I just can't pull the trigger on a Mountain Man, but love Queen, and traditional lockbacks. I just can't stand excessive blade play, and I'm not lucky when it comes to hit and miss quality, Queen makes a grand slipjoint, an I'm proud of the ones I own, but the Swing guard of theirs I purchased 2 years ago, has a ton of play, I men it's not totally unusable, but I'd expect better F&F for the price, still a Queen fan at the end of the day. Never really paid much attention to the S&M Branded MM, ATS-34 is a solid performer, and would make for an excellent user.
 
Thanks for posting the pics!

What are your thoughts on the Boker? Any issues with blade play, fit/finish, etc? After the latest in a series of disappointments, I've given up on Queen. The Boker looks like the best alternative, but I've not seen one in hand yet.
 
Which is the boker? What's the model number and how is it?

Edit: it's a model p186 available in bubinga and ebony in 440C. Not cheap for Chinese.
 
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The Boker is ok - I think I paid about 40 bucks which is a lot less than any of the others. It is claimed to be 440c but I have no way of knowing. Edge holding I'd good but not like D2. Fit and finish is not bad but there are a few gaps. Opens very smoothly and has minimal blade play. Good user at a low price. I can't say how representative mine is of the brand generally.

Ps - Boker is second from the bottom in the group shot.
 
Thanks for that. Minor gaps I can live with, I worry more about blade play. Can you see if the scales are actually pinned on? The only Boker Plus model I've seen much is the "Rangebuster" (locking sodbuster): a good knife, but the scales are glued on, and the pins seem to be cosmetic. . . .

My knife, and a number of others purchased by a friend (for laser-engraving as "gimme knives" for his business), have been remarkably consistent. Blades reasonably-well centered (no rubs), blade play not noticeable in use and barely measurable on most examples. If any of the Queens I purchased over the years had been that well-made, I'd have been a happy camper.

Steel on the knives I've had tested has been around 57-58 HRc. Edgeholding has been comparable to a an old Schrade of similar size. Definitely not the equal of D2, but not bad.
 
There are pins in the scales - I have no idea if they have any structural role or not. There is a lanyard hole which is lined with a tube that goes right through.

Don't give up on Queen - the zebra wood Mountain Man in the pic above is a gem in terms of fit and blade lockup. If you can find a reliable seller to check the knife first they are still one of the best options around. I understand where you are coming from though - I have had my issues with them. I must be an optimist or perhaps a slow learner.
 
Thanks for the info. I probably wouldn't give up on Queen if I thought anyone there cared, but I don't believe they do. I've owned 6 Queen knives of this pattern; with my most-recent purchase (a stag S&M) I've had knives made under two owners. Every one has been a disappointment; the last one actually rattled when shaken.

As I've written before, I am a "user in a collectors' world." I buy knives with the intention of using them, and then I use them. I couldn't do that with the Queen knives I've purchased, and I'm tired of messing-about with it.

On the other hand, almost every Boker I've ever seen was quite nice, and the examples of Boker Plus manufacture that I've seen have been decent, so I'm willing to consider them.
 
Love the mountain man, wishing to have one in 1095 high carbon steel. But have no any budget yet
Thanks for showing to us here... It is cheer up my day
 
Gah. I hate to see people giving up on Queen. I haven't had a bad one apart from the blasted edges. Id guess its a QC issue and the new owner would clear that up. Ontario mhst have got spread too thin although one could argue that QC has never been their strength.


Chinese knives can be terrific with good QC. I have seen a couple of reviews here and there on that particular Boker. Not sure what to think.


Re: Pins. You should be able to see a hole in the liner on that one nearest the edge of the handle if they are real.
 
I saw a few at the Chesapeake Knife show last December. They looked really good, too nice to use as a matter of fact. I hope that Ryan Daniels or his wife have some at the Chesapeake show this December.
 
MarkPinTx said:
Gah. I hate to see people giving up on Queen. I haven't had a bad one apart from the blasted edges. Id guess its a QC issue and the new owner would clear that up. Ontario mhst have got spread too thin although one could argue that QC has never been their strength.
Click to expand...

Mark, the various Schatt & Morgan Mountain Man models with D2 blades were produced under the new owner. If clearing up this known issue were a priority, it would have been done.
 
It takes time to fix a production process line. A new owner is not gifted with a magic wand which will automatically immediately fix all existing problems, retrain an entire work staff, and immediate fix all the tooling issues.

It is too soon yet to determine where Queen's performance will end up.
 
Ah ok on the new production.Sorry to hear that. I generally agree with Frank on QC, but surely there is some continuity in the ceaftsmen and tooling, then again I bet that D2 eats tooling like nobody's business. Also I am afraid that I too often think of Chinese QC: higher scrap rate. Then again it would seem that a lot of the Queen complaints could be remedied with careful inspection and another pass through crafting operations.


And I should say my "gah" was not directed at you but more at Queen. I can certainly understand your frustration.
 
knarfeng said:
It takes time to fix a production process line.
Click to expand...

Of course a new owner (production manager, etc) can't fix everything overnight--but it would only take one person with minimal training to inspect on a pass/fail basis every knife of a model recognized for having issues. Even that isn't an instant solution (might take a week or two to hire/train/set up), but it would prevent problematic knives from reaching distributors and consumers.

You are again correct that it is too soon to determine where Queen's performance will end up. Maybe I'll revisit my decision when the day comes that I can buy one sight-unseen without any worries, and if there should chance to be problems, the factory will be responsive in correcting them. But that day is not today.
 
I have a Mountain Man Queen arriving today or tomorrow. All these comments are interesting. I'll just have to wait and see what happens with the F&F. All I can say is it was interesting to hear that 6 were purchased by one member and all were disappointing. Fool me once, shame on you...Fool me twice, shame on me...
Just hopping I have better luck. I'll post my thoughts when it is here.

Tom
 
OP notices something that I found very interesting as well. The smooth bone models were much tighter than the stag / amber stag made around the same time. Also the ACSB / CZ models have been tighter than usual as of late.

I think we all should by now understand that Queen shims joints on lockbar knives since they have no real functional spring. And they do not seem to be improving the art of finding the sweet spot between free flow and tight lockup. But whoever was working the fittings on the days the Antique Bone came thru needs a full time chair.

I have full faith that they will work out their issues.
 
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