Schatt & Morgan questions

R

RobbW

Joined
Oct 15, 2003
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I'm thinking about getting my first S&M. I have a couple of questions though, having never handled one.

Is 420HC a good edge holder? I'm used to 1095, CV & D2.

Is the build quality really all that great for the premium over, say Case or Queen (I know Queen makes S&M, but are the specs. different?)?

Thanks!
 
Is 420HC a good edge holder? I'm used to 1095, CV & D2.
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The edge retention is OK, compared to 1095 or VC anyway. But it doesn't seem to get as sharp as carbon steel to begin with. I don't think it's nearly as nice as D2 when it comes to retention.

Is the build quality really all that great for the premium over, say Case or Queen (I know Queen makes S&M, but are the specs. different?)?
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I haven't been thrilled with my recent Queen purchases, but my new S&M peanut is great! I'd say it's a bit nicer than the similar Case peanut (which I also just purchased). The Case is very good with no obvious F&F problems, but the Case lacks a half-stop and the S&M has a more distinct 'snap'.

My only gripe about the S&M, considering the price and fine F&F, the knife is worthy of a more premium steel.
 
If you don't really want 420 SS then try the File & Wire line of knives from S & M. Most of them are ATS-34, of the 17 knives released only 2 are 420 SS that I know of.
As far as F & F goes, I think they are the finest American made production slipjoint going.
Queen has released a few different patterns in 1095. Some are S&M.

Dave
 
knowtracks said:
If you don't really want 420 SS then try the File & Wire line of knives from S & M. Most of them are ATS-34, of the 17 knives released only 2 are 420 SS that I know of.
As far as F & F goes, I think they are the finest American made production slipjoint going.
Queen has released a few different patterns in 1095. Some are S&M.

Dave
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I have several Schatts in ATS-34; they are top of the line.

I would like to add that this week I received one of the new Case knives in 154CM. The 2 blade Large Folding Hunter.

It is a tremendously impressive knife and I highly recommend it. :thumbup:
 
Bob W, that's odd because all 3 of my CASE peanuts have very pronounced half stops ( Crandall, Antique Bone and Bonestag) What pattern do you have? Mine are all stainless as well.

Been thinking about an S&M Peanut too but it costs around 75 dollars which is near twice CASE prices. Also, the S&M Premier English Jack I have is frankly woeful. Yes the edges are good and it's nice to have long match-pulls and a kind of swedged blade(not really convincing) BUT, gaps all over, roughness on the backspring and pitiful blade wobble on BOTH blades really knocks the shine off a supposedly superior factory knife. The Rough Rider Gunstock patterns I have don't have these faults and they cost less than 12 as opposed to 80 dollars.

Still thinking of giving S&M another chance (although I'm not a benevolence fund..) maybe a Queen Dan Burke or a Mountain Man or Sodbuster S&M for instance. Yet to have a problem with CASE knives I'm happy to say.
 
Bob W, that's odd because all 3 of my CASE peanuts have very pronounced half stops ( Crandall, Antique Bone and Bonestag) What pattern do you have? Mine are all stainless as well.
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Just double-checked the Case knives:

The stainless Eisenhower (harvest orange bone) seems to have no half-stop at all. The CV peanut (red bone) has half-stops, but they aren't distinct. More like a half-slow than a half-stop. ;)

Don't know that it matters anyway, I mean a half-stop doesn't add any function to a pocketknife. It was just something I noticed immediately when comparing the Case products to the Schatt-Morgan.
 
willgoy said:
Also, the S&M Premier English Jack I have is frankly woeful. Yes the edges are good and it's nice to have long match-pulls and a kind of swedged blade(not really convincing) BUT, gaps all over, roughness on the backspring and pitiful blade wobble on BOTH blades really knocks the shine off a supposedly superior factory knife.
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I would not hesitate to send that knife back to whomever you purchased from.

Dave
 
Problem IS I live in the EU and not the US and I'm a bit wary of sending stuff back after having paid......:eek:

I'll give S&M another chance, but not from that dealer:D
 
knowtracks said:
If you don't really want 420 SS then try the File & Wire line of knives from S & M. Most of them are ATS-34, of the 17 knives released only 2 are 420 SS that I know of.
As far as F & F goes, I think they are the finest American made production slipjoint going.
Queen has released a few different patterns in 1095. Some are S&M.

Dave
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I agree 100 % with David........Mike
 
i have an S&M F&W Widcat Driller (ATS 34), and quite a few stag Queens, including Mtn. Man in 1095, but my best Queen is my MooreMaker jumbo stag trapper LL, with 1/2 stops, awesome stag, 1095, perfectly built knife (~$150). it's a belt carry, not pocket. it looks as good as a $500 custom, the fit is 100% on. roland
 
Thanks for the feedback. I expected to hear reports of S&M's fine fit and finish, and that's why I'm interested in trying one out. As I said, I didn't know where 420HC stacked up, and I'm glad I didn't make the mistake (for me) of getting one. I'll look around for ATS-34 or D2.

I'm looking for a thin, pocketable knife with 2 thin blades in the 3.5" region. I just picked up a S&M-made Northwoods Senator in Sambar. At 3.25", it is a Peanut-category knife. The blades share a single spring, and nest together tightly. It is incredible, and I'd like something slightly larger, with good carbon or tool steel blades, to compliment it. I like the looks of the S&M #7 Premier English Jack, but won't be satisfied with stainless.

Any leads?
 
RobbW said:
Thanks for the feedback. I expected to hear reports of S&M's fine fit and finish, and that's why I'm interested in trying one out. As I said, I didn't know where 420HC stacked up, and I'm glad I didn't make the mistake (for me) of getting one. I'll look around for ATS-34 or D2.

I'm looking for a thin, pocketable knife with 2 thin blades in the 3.5" region. I just picked up a S&M-made Northwoods Senator in Sambar. At 3.25", it is a Peanut-category knife. The blades share a single spring, and nest together tightly. It is incredible, and I'd like something slightly larger, with good carbon or tool steel blades, to compliment it. I like the looks of the S&M #7 Premier English Jack, but won't be satisfied with stainless.

Any leads?
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Queen's standard product line of slipjoints with D2 blade steel and the newer antique honey carved stag bone handles are nice...I have several patterns of them for EDC (six actually) and I really like them. They do take a lot of effort to reprofile initially but after that the resharpening is a snap. And the edge holding is awesomw.
 
As knifeaholic said "Queen's regular line is D-2" To the best of my knowledge there are no S&M knives with D-2 blades. Of the Regular Reproduction Series knives there are only 2 years that they used ATS-34 steel,`99 & 2000. (IX & X)
As far as the File & Wire Series goes most all of these knives are larger than what you are talking. with perhaps the moose Canoe or mini-Sunfish. A 2 blade quite thin pocketable knife, but still not as small as a step up from a peanut. You can view all the Reproduction's & some of the F&W here, www.crisnercutlery.com
I carry a mini-trapper made by Queen with 1095 steel that is more along the lines you are talking. The main blade is more of a muskrat than a clip, if need be I might be able to come up with a pic.

Hope this helps,
Dave
 
RobbW said:
Thanks for the feedback. I expected to hear reports of S&M's fine fit and finish, and that's why I'm interested in trying one out. As I said, I didn't know where 420HC stacked up, and I'm glad I didn't make the mistake (for me) of getting one. I'll look around for ATS-34 or D2.

I'm looking for a thin, pocketable knife with 2 thin blades in the 3.5" region. I just picked up a S&M-made Northwoods Senator in Sambar. At 3.25", it is a Peanut-category knife. The blades share a single spring, and nest together tightly. It is incredible, and I'd like something slightly larger, with good carbon or tool steel blades, to compliment it. I like the looks of the S&M #7 Premier English Jack, but won't be satisfied with stainless.

Any leads?
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I'm pretty sure that Moore Maker has a trapper and a muskrat in carbon steel.
You can also check what Case has in their CV (Chrome Vanadium) steel.
AFAIK, Schatt & Morgan does not make any carbon steel blades.
 
Thanks for the leads--I really appreciate it.

On the trappers and muskrats with a single blade on each end, are the blades working on a single spring, or are there two springs (i.e., double-width) like there would be on a stockman, cattleman or congress knife?

Sorry for the Qs--I like the look of the buffalo Moore Maker muskrat--a bit large, but thin and elegant. Saw some nice Queens with D2. I'll try to track down the elusive S&M knives in D2. It looks like I might want a couple of knives--for the variety and to have 1 example each of some different scale materials.

Thanks again.
 
Too bad S&M doesn't make more knives with better steel. I just got a Northwoods Senator in D2 and Sambar Stag that was made by S&M. REALLY nice knife. I'd love to get something similar, just a touch larger.
 
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