Schatt & Morgan - who actually produces the knives?

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Arathol

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Two new Queen knives were delivered to me today, a Queen Carved Stag Bone teardrop jack and a #7 (2005) Schatt & Morgan English Jack. The teardrop is marked Titusville PA on the front of the tang. However, the English jack is marked S&M NY on the front of both blades, and Queen Cut. Co Titusville PA is on the obverse side of the master blade. Is the NY stamping just a revival of an old mark or was it really made in New York? S&M marked knives haven't been made in NY since about 1902, and Camillus seems to have been making knives for Queen recently. Anyone know who is really making what and where?
 
I never heard of Camillus making knives for Queen!! Where did you hear about that????
Queen makes Schatt & Morgan, as well as Queen, and several other stampings, usually with Queen on the reverse. Someone posted a list; maybe someone can drop the link in here for us?
 
The NY tang stamp is only used on the Premier line of knives. They are all made in Titusville PA. Queen owns the rights to all the S/M tang stamps since they bought Schatt & Morgan out on Aug. 21, 1933.
I have never heard of Camillus making any knives for Queen either, but in years gone by there was alot of outsourcing between companies.
As you know Queen makes knives for Marbles, Robeson, & Case Classic. Maybe others!
 
Schatt & Morgan was founded in 1890 and was purchased by Queen City in 1932. 1947 saw the name change to Queen Cutlery and Queen Steel knives were introduced. Queen Cutlery is still housed in the old Schatt & Morgan factory. Schatt & Morgan knives are handmade in Titusville, PA by Queen Cutlery of the finest materials available.

I copied this... Hope it is of some relavance.
 
The first knife company started by John W. Schatt and Charles B. Morgan was called New York Cutlery Company, not to be confused with New York Knife Company, which is a completely different business. New York Cutlery Company was located in............ummmm, New Yorkin 1896. In early 1987, the company was moved to Gowanda, NY, the home of J.W. Schatt. They bought the plant from of all people, Platts cutlery, one of the Case family involved brands. Platts made the Case Bros. knives I do believe. In 1902, S&M moved to Titusville, PA. Queen City Cutlery Company was formed in 1922 by five master cutlers who had been fired from S&M for making knives on the side and selling them themselves. They moved a few blocks away and started their new business. They were successful, whereas Schatt and Morgan slowly bankrupted, in part because J.W. Schatt had left the company to return to Gowanda, and C.B. Morgan had gotten involved in politics, becoming mayor of Titusville, ignoring the knife business. The Queen City folks bought the Schatt and Morgan factory via sheriffs auction for non payment of debt in 1932, moved into the factory, and have been there since. Over on All About Pocket Knives website, the story, written by David Krauss, is available to read. I got the bulk of my information via Sargents book, American Premium Guide to Knives and Razors, from the history of Queen Cutlery Company by David Krauss again. As far as I can dig, Camillus has never made knives for Queen. Queen has made Robeson, Schatt & Morgan, Winchester's through Bluegrass Cutlery, Marbles MSA pocketknives when Mike Stewart was running the company, the bone and stag handled Mooremakers, and the biggest part of the Parker commissioned "Case Classics" from the early 1990's. Queen is owned by parent company Servotronics, as a sister company to Ontario Knives. Ontario bought out the remnants of Robeson sometime in the late 1960's, which is how Queen came about being able to produce knives with the Robeson stamp.

Queen is small company, very small, with only about thirty employees, including office staff. It's amazing what they can turn out. I had a bunch of photos of the factory and some of the workers, but when my 'puter puked here a while back I lost them all, and cannot find them again on the net. :o
 
Nice info' Phil!

I seriously and I mean SERIOUSLY doubt Camillus has ever made a knife for Queen.
 
I have heard that not all the S&M patterns and dyes belong to Queen.
Rumour has it that a small new independent company, also located in Titusville, have access to some of the older patters/dyes.
They may not use the name, but they can make the knives.
Their first products are just about due for release.
They aim to rival (if not exceed) the best traditional pocket-knives on the market today.
Dirk
 
oupa said:
They aim to rival (if not exceed) the best traditional pocket-knives on the market today.
Dirk
Click to expand...

If you're talking about Great Eastern Cutlery, yeah I am kinda hyped to see what they come out with. Word is some of their knives are gonna be 440C which is an old favorite of mine!
 
Here is some info as per Bill Horn:
I have just been notified by Bill Howard and Ken Daniels, principal owners, that Great Eastern Cutlery has started production on their first patterns. These knives will be shipping in mid-January and absolutely will not last long...here is the straight skinny.

There will be two knives to begin the show.The first one is a modified Jumbo Trapper ( somewhat similar to the Queen Mt. Man ) at 4 1/4" closed . It will be available in 3 ways. .....1095 carbon blades ,bone handles w/ Tidioute Cutlery tang stamp. Tidioute , as you know, went under long ago and Bill now has the rights to the name. It also comes in 420 SS w/ Great Eastern tang stamp, bone handles. Last , it can be had in Sambar Stag , 1095 carbon steel w/ Northfield tang stamp.

Now, repeat the same thing as above only in a smaller version at 3 3/4" closed.

Each pattern will be limited to only 250 knives..they will be serialized and have the 2006 date on the tang. These will be THE ONLY knives with 2006 stamp.

With the demise of Schrade Cutlery and now, Camillus, there has been a big void in 1095 carbon knives. These knives will be affordable for everyday use.

Bill Howard has had many years at Queen as the chief designer. Do not look for any nasty knives coming out of Titusville with Bill running the operation.

The Great Eastern Cutlery ( 2006 - present ) knife will be done in 440C ...not 420SS as I said earlier. Big difference !! It will also have the tang stamping of " Cyclops Steel Works " on the reverse of tang.

The Tidioute Cutlery ( 1897 - 1916 ) stamping will be 1095 and have a " Titusville Iron Works " reverse tang stamping. Can you say titty-ooot ??

Northfield Knife Co. ( 1858 - 1919 ) will have "Northfield un-x-ld" stamped on reverse. Old time ads for Northfield had the "unxld" on everything. Say it real fast a few times...it says " un excelled " quality. I am sure we will have it here also. The Northfield line will be the premier label.

The first two patterns will remind you of the R-------n #23 and #73 knives. These ARE NOT ! copies, they only remind you of these .
 
Queen Cutlery will be having their bi-annual show this summer, sometime in July. Tours are generally available a day or so before the show. Quite an interesting experience, like walking back 100 yrs in time.
It's a really nice show, imo, as ya can see just about anything in the way of cutlery. bruce
 
I think the reason for the NY tang stamp on the Schatt & Morgans
is because Queen/Schatt has two facilities -

One is in Franklinville, NY
and the other is in Titusville, PA.
 
for those interested in the new"great eastern cutlery"

do a google search and you will find a thread from someplace i forget that has a contact # and email addy for them-the first ones ship real soon-

i was tempted to buy one myself -but im way over budget and cant afford one
 
I'll definitely be looking for the Tidioute tang stamp. When I was a young man I had a cousin that had a hunting camp near Tidioute, PA. We were like brothers growing up. He died young. I'll always have fond memories of our times at the camp in Tidioute.
 
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