School me on whetstones

T

Travis Fry

Joined
Jun 11, 2010
Messages
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I have Soft and Hard (white) Arkansas stones that I picked up on a recent vacation to the Natural State. I have since enjoyed the superior sharpitude of such stones, and want to progress. I am considering a black extra hard and a translucent even harder (?) Arkansas. However, I am not opposed to synthetics or water stones or Japanese or whatever. I want the best few stones there are so that I can get my knives sharperer than they ever have been. I might some day also use them to sharpen straight razors, but for now it's just the knives I make and the others I own. So... is a black Arkansas the correct next move? Where should I get them?
 
I have owned a few Arkansas stones, soft and hard white. I like them OK, and you can certainly sharpen well with them. I have used the "honing fluid" that Smith's sells, which works fine, but mostly use just a splash of kerosene with them. I inherited a whitish/translucent hard arkansas stone from my grandfather, which was all clogged up, and kerosene brought it right back after a while.

I don't use them anymore. Now, I do most of my sharpening on my belt grinders and finish with a stropping belt loaded with green chrome. For razors I use Japanese waterstones, King #1200 and #4000, then an 8000 Takenoko, then finish with a horsehide strop without compound. The waterstones I feel are much faster, and I prefer hand sharpening with water to sharpening with kerosene or oil.

For touchup in the kitchen, I use a combination waterstone- found it secondhand, but it seems like a 4000/8000 or so to me. Works great to sharpen real quick with at the sink. I keep the King #1200 in the kitchen as well, which will put a nice aggressive edge on for tomatoes and the like, on softer stuff like my ss Dexter Russell and Victorinox chef knives.
 
Hey Travis, I've got an extra 1000 grit japanese stone if you want it... Never been used, a buddy of mine brought it back from Korea for me. I had asked him to pick a 10000 up for me and he brought the wrong one... Anyway, drop me a line if you want it. I live way out in w. Texas, but shipping can't be THAT much...
 
Travis, if you have some money to spend i'll tell you what i consider the best stones ever (sintetic): Naniwa Professional Stones (former Chosera line).
600 - 2000 - 10000. They are definitely all you need for the rest of your life. They cut amazingly, retain the shape and have the best feedback i had tryied....i even "hand sand" on them whenever i can!!! Don't leave them into the water....
Buy yourself a natural stone every now and then (nature's gifts they are) and maybe a coarse diamond plate to speed up setting the bevels and dressing the stones you have.
 
look up Ken Schwartz he stocks a ton of stuff and is very knowledgeable. I have a nubutama 150 grit "brick" for setting bevels or thinning. Also have a shapton glass synthetic 2K, aggressive cut leaves a great working edge, and a 10k imanishi stone that leaves a beautiful polished edge very quickly.
 
Thank you timos-, i was searching for Imanishi 10k feedbacks. Do you have "digging" problems worth noting with this stone?
 
you can buy a lot of 1 micron diamond paste for the cost of a 10k stone. And since there's no standard that dictates particle size/distribution above 8000 grit (JIS standard) they vary wildly (honestly water stones in general vary wildly from brand to brand as many don't adhere to the JIS grit standard, avoid norton as their 8000 has an average particle size of JIS standard 4000, and the trend continues all the way down)
 
Stezann, the Imanishi is quite soft! Recommend to only use pull stroke with edge facing away, If that is what you mean by digging.
 
eh eh, i meant edge leading strokes in the unfortunate event that the edge "catches" the stone and dig a score on its surface.
If an high grit stone is quite soft the likelihood of that happening is very high. Those stones are better to be used for flat chisel grinds or straight razors than for honing regular "microbevels".
The Naniwa Prof. Stone is high price but it is very hard, similar to an hard, high density natural stone in that regard....

Bear in mind that edge trailing strokes will form a foil burr; just a couple of finishing passes in this mode is enough and advisable before stropping, more will ruin the work we did before.
 
ahh thanks for tips, yes the imanishi is prone to digging, infact I put a huge gouge in mine with a really thin edge cpm20cv blade. I dont have a ton of experience with different stones but to OP concerns: You can use a stone like Imanishi 10K to sharpen AEBL to slice free standing tomato with little trouble.
 
My 8K Takenoko is pretty soft... easy to score with a blade if you push sharpen on it. I normally pull across it, and only use it for my razors. Good stone, though.
 
It is pretty common with sintetic stones of high grit, also my 8000 is prone to this gouging issue. For straight razors they are awsome since the sharpening dinamic is different, relying on a steady fixed angle vs. the angle provided by our shaky old hands :)
 
Yes. I bought a few japanese water stones based on what was generally liked among the j-knife enthusiasts and pretty much freaking hate them. I got a Nubatama Ume 1k and a Suehiro Rika 5k. Being used to hard stones and of course making mostly full height flat grind knives, they're just really not conducive to sharpening my knives, the way I'm accustomed to, and thus I end up using a combination of belts, DMT stone, and an old hone I suspect is either a Coticule or one of the old surgical arkansas stones in a color that's no longer produced.


I'm likely to try the shapton glass stones eventually. I've no desire to make Japanese style knives, so I'm pretty certain I'll be sticking to hard stones.
 
Definitely, for sharpening "microbevel style" we want hard, low wearing stones, as well as diamond hones.
Among the sintetic, the naniwa professional stones are actually amazing as well as many natural hard stones.
Doing just edge trailing strokes on softer stones to avoid digging is not a workaround, it only creates huge foil burrs, and knocking them out will end into an hideous apex.
 
Wow. This was more than I thought I would get. Like Salem, I usually sharpen on my grinder and touch up with a strop, but as I learn to grind better over the years I'm also really liking what stones can do. I don't really want to spend a ton of money when I'm generally very happy with my current results, but may up my game a bit and still go with a hard black Arkansas.
 
Travis, 1 micron diamond paste on a piece of flat steel (people have been using sheet metal, doesn't have to be crazy) will give you just as good if not better results than a 10k stone.
 
I've had and or tried them all, at one time or another, for my money now it's Shapton glass, or TREND or DMT diamond stuff. If you happen to WANT a Arkansas stone, I'm a big fan of the tranluscent one, and yes I have a large black one.
 
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