Schrade and design theft

Won't be buying a Schrade soon..not that I ever did except a little auto years ago..sad.
The 0450CF really pisses me off since I own one.
 
afishhunter said:
I think it is terrible that so many companies are copying Schrade's knives. :(
But, I guess it is nothing new. Look at how many make a copy of the Sharpfinger.
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I believe, the point of this thread, is current Schrade config copying the work of other knife companies - not vice versa.
 
How many people on this forum actually buy Schrade products?

I understand this is a discussion forum but subjects like this are ridiculous imo.
All these companies steal ideas, some are more blatant than others.

Maybe the CEO snapped because of all the Sharpfinger clones and told R&D that he wants payback.

Who knows?
Who cares???

It’s not even the discussion that irks me it is the sanctimonious drivel about how evil it is making a similar looking piece of cutlery.

Sure it is tacky but I’m not going to get riled up cause Schrade copies my favorite knife.
 
willc said:
How many people on this forum actually buy Schrade products?

I understand this is a discussion forum but subjects like this are ridiculous imo.
All these companies steal ideas, some are more blatant than others.

Maybe the CEO snapped because of all the Sharpfinger clones and told R&D that he wants payback.

Who knows?
Who cares???

It’s not even the discussion that irks me it is the sanctimonious drivel about how evil it is making a similar looking piece of cutlery.

Sure it is tacky but I’m not going to get riled up cause Schrade copies my favorite knife.
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As I havent posted any 'ridiculous sanctimonious drivel,' I dont feel singled out but if you dont throttle it back a tad and make it about knives instead of insults towards fellow forum members, this thread is headin' for a fall by MOD.

Personally, I think the OPs comparison posts interesting.

I knew the transitions SCHRADE had gone through and that they make several cheapo knives - some similar to those of other companies - I just didnt know to which extent.

An eye opener.
 
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BladeScout said:
As I havent posted any 'ridiculous sanctimonious drivel,' I dont feel singled out but if you dont throttle it back a tad and make it about knives instead of insults towards fellow forum members, this thread is headin' for a fall by MOD.

Personally, I think the OPs comparison posts interesting.

I knew the transitions SCHRADE had gone through and that they make several cheapo knives - some similar to those of other companies - I just didnt know to which extent.

An eye opener.
Click to expand...

I don’t understand what you’re talking about.
Sorry if I offended you.
 
willc said:
How many people on this forum actually buy Schrade products?

I understand this is a discussion forum but subjects like this are ridiculous imo.
All these companies steal ideas, some are more blatant than others.

Maybe the CEO snapped because of all the Sharpfinger clones and told R&D that he wants payback.

Who knows?
Who cares???

It’s not even the discussion that irks me it is the sanctimonious drivel about how evil it is making a similar looking piece of cutlery.

Sure it is tacky but I’m not going to get riled up cause Schrade copies my favorite knife.
Click to expand...

What???!??

You are aware that the Schrade of today is not the same as the Schrade of old, right? Schrade closed its doors in 2004. They were purchased by Taylor, and recently sold to Battenfeld Technologies, a subsidiary of Smith and Wesson. Since 2004, the knives are Schrades in name and shape only. Instead of USA made quality tools, they're Chinese made, cheap, and crappy.

Who knows? Obviously not you, since you think the CEO is the same person from decades ago.
Who cares? Plenty of people.

What you call "sanctimonious drivel", most of us here call passion, morals, ethics, and respect. It's not "sanctimonious drivel" when a hard-working, honest man designs and creates a knife (or anything else, really), and some unethical, unscrupulous takes the fruits of his efforts without credit and certainly without compensation to make a cheap knockoff that banks on the resemblance to the real deal.

You might not give a rat's ass about the industry or community, but many of us here do, and these knockoffs and attitudes like yours are damaging to the industry, hobby, and community.

It's more than tacky - it's disgraceful and disrespectful. Have you ever heard "Behind Blue Eyes" by Limp Bizkit? That's what the owners of Schrade's name is doing to the company's long history by slapping it on knockoff garbage. They're taking the name and wiping their ass with it.
 
willc said:
How many people on this forum actually buy Schrade products?

I understand this is a discussion forum but subjects like this are ridiculous imo.
All these companies steal ideas, some are more blatant than others.

Maybe the CEO snapped because of all the Sharpfinger clones and told R&D that he wants payback.

Who knows?
Who cares???

It’s not even the discussion that irks me it is the sanctimonious drivel about how evil it is making a similar looking piece of cutlery.

Sure it is tacky but I’m not going to get riled up cause Schrade copies my favorite knife.
Click to expand...

I don't know much about the other companies, but please point me to where Chris Reeve stole someone else's idea.
Many of the pieces I have seen are not similar looking at all, they features and shapes are so right that it's easier to count the dissimilarities, which are very few..and then..get this, SCHRADE boldly emblazons their logo on them as if they were proud of their intellectual accomplishment and offering.
It's all a victimless crime when the theft isn't happening to the buyer..It's no big deal at all unless it's your intellectual property being stolen and sold.

Yes yes..the sharpfinger..very cool design in my opinion. I believe I have a schrade sharpfinger around here somewhere..but correct me if I am wrong as I don't study the other brands all that well..but to my knowledge, none of the brands in the OP actually make a sharpfinger copy?
So, if you were going to get some sort of revenge, wouldn't it make more sense to copy the designs of the ones that copied yours IF you were going to do such a thing?

All just musings over coffee- carry on..always an interesting conversation to read.
 
Shrade just browse dhgate and aliexpress and sell anything they want. Worst company ever

Let's not also forget how really really bad these knives are in reality. Even for the cost they are terrible quality and worse heat treatment.
 
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First I want to say that I do not at all support what Schrade or any other company ripping off other’s designs are doing. I think it is hard to come up with a distinctive knife design and I think it is a terrible turn they are so shamelessly taking other’s hard work. This definitely takes away from thd sales of the knives they copy.

Joe public may want a zt450 his buddy has very badly and has been saving his doubloons. Then he goes online and sees the Schrade copy. Unaware of knife steel or what makes a quality knife buys the Schrade thinking be got the same knife but way cheaper. There are enough ppl new to the game thinking they can get a deal on “wholesale” knives.

That said I have always wondered why it applies to the knife world, but not the gun world. I never see Bushmaster or HK or SiG chastised for their blatant ar-15 copies. I see the same attitude towards guns as I do to the Buck 110 copies.

Why is it that some design ripoffs are seemingly not an issue, and others cause such a furious reaction?
 
Lapedog said:
First I want to say that I do not at all support what Schrade or any other company ripping off other’s designs are doing. I think it is hard to come up with a distinctive knife design and I think it is a terrible turn they are so shamelessly taking other’s hard work. This definitely takes away from thd sales of the knives they copy.

Joe public may want a zt450 his buddy has very badly and has been saving his doubloons. Then he goes online and sees the Schrade copy. Unaware of knife steel or what makes a quality knife buys the Schrade thinking be got the same knife but way cheaper. There are enough ppl new to the game thinking they can get a deal on “wholesale” knives.

That said I have always wondered why it applies to the knife world, but not the gun world. I never see Bushmaster or HK or SiG chastised for their blatant ar-15 copies. I see the same attitude towards guns as I do to the Buck 110 copies.

Why is it that some design ripoffs are seemingly not an issue, and others cause such a furious reaction?
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The only intellectual property that exists for the baseline AR-15 design is the term “AR-15” itself. That is a trademark owned by Colt and only they can use it to designate a rifle as an “AR-15”. You’ll notice that everyone else labels their rifles “Something-15” like “M-15”, “ST-15”, “EA-15”, “M&P-15” and so on.

There is no fee to make the standard AR-15 design. The design is in the public domain today. Anyone can produce it as long as they don’t market it as an “AR-15”. The term “AR-15” itself is generally used among the lay population to refer to any rifle built on the AR-15 pattern regardless of what it is actually called. We call them “AR-15s” or simply “ARs” in common jargon. Everyone will know what type of rifle you’re talking about regardless of who made it.

Keep in mind that there are a couple of subpatterns to the basic AR-15 lower. Commonly referred to as “small pin” and “large pin”. The types, as the labels imply, refers to the hammer/trigger pin sizes. Colt AR-15s used a large pin design. All of the other clone makers used a small pin design. Today unless otherwise stated by the manufacturer, all AR-15 lowers use the “small pin” design. Large pin lowers are pretty much unknown outside of Colt.

This lack of ownership around the design is the reason AR pattern rifles are so prolific and popular. Everyone is constantly tinkering with them, improving them, offering different options. It doesn’t hurt that the design itself is modular, made of easy-to-work materials and doesn’t require extensive tooling to produce and maintain.

ARs require more basic technical capability to manufacture but once built, are much easier to maintain, repair and modify without that techincal base. You don’t see ARs being built in the mountains of Pakistan because their baseline construction requirements are much higher than a campfire, an anvil and a hammer to beat sheet steel into submission.
- Matt Pickering
 
BladeScout said:
The only intellectual property that exists for the baseline AR-15 design is the term “AR-15” itself. That is a trademark owned by Colt and only they can use it to designate a rifle as an “AR-15”. You’ll notice that everyone else labels their rifles “Something-15” like “M-15”, “ST-15”, “EA-15”, “M&P-15” and so on.

There is no fee to make the standard AR-15 design. The design is in the public domain today. Anyone can produce it as long as they don’t market it as an “AR-15”. The term “AR-15” itself is generally used among the lay population to refer to any rifle built on the AR-15 pattern regardless of what it is actually called. We call them “AR-15s” or simply “ARs” in common jargon. Everyone will know what type of rifle you’re talking about regardless of who made it.

Keep in mind that there are a couple of subpatterns to the basic AR-15 lower. Commonly referred to as “small pin” and “large pin”. The types, as the labels imply, refers to the hammer/trigger pin sizes. Colt AR-15s used a large pin design. All of the other clone makers used a small pin design. Today unless otherwise stated by the manufacturer, all AR-15 lowers use the “small pin” design. Large pin lowers are pretty much unknown outside of Colt.

This lack of ownership around the design is the reason AR pattern rifles are so prolific and popular. Everyone is constantly tinkering with them, improving them, offering different options. It doesn’t hurt that the design itself is modular, made of easy-to-work materials and doesn’t require extensive tooling to produce and maintain.

ARs require more basic technical capability to manufacture but once built, are much easier to maintain, repair and modify without that techincal base. You don’t see ARs being built in the mountains of Pakistan because their baseline construction requirements are much higher than a campfire, an anvil and a hammer to beat sheet steel into submission.
- Matt Pickering
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Thank you for all that, I was aware of that but it is good info to have on the thread anyway.

Now much in the same way there is no patent or intellectual property rights protecting many of these knife designs being copied by Schrade.

What I am asking is why is no one mad when other companies copy the ar15 platform and slap Hk416 on the side of it; but are mad when Schrade copies the ZT0450 and slaps Schrade on the side of it.

It makes me mad too because I hate to see the designer getting ripped off. I am just trying to ask; logically why does it anger me and so many others in the knife world, but seemingly no one cares when it is a firearm.
 
I really liked the one piece hollow handle CRK ripoffs, but I just can't.
 
The similarities are remarkable. So remarkable that I just decided not to buy anything current Schrade again. The brand was a favorites as far as slip joints and their old pre-bankruptcy days (USA ones). Now, I pretty much don't want anything they make or have made. I looked at some deeply discounted ones the other day and was tempted.... then I said "why bother"?
 
Damn. I own a Schrade SCH304M, essentially a downsized SCH304. Didn't know it was a rip-off. Hadn't seen or heard of the Crusader Forge FIFP before, either. This changes a lot, I'm going to be quite ashamed to carry it now. It has been a great knife especially for the price. I haven't bought another Schrade, though, they just don't call out to me like some other knives do.
 
crom said:
I really liked the one piece hollow handle CRK ripoffs, but I just can't.
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Yes, it's a CRK ripoff but, Chris stopped production of his model because of steel supply issues. So, If you want one, the ripoff may be the only option.

However, I'm with you, the thought doesn't sit right with me, either.
 
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