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Anyone have any info. on the schrade + u.s.a. marked SC513 & SC515 lockback Knives have both but can find little info. on theme. did'nt see theme on the schrade list. Thanks, CAV.
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Schrade SC513 & SC515 lockbacks ?
- Thread starter cavtrpr340
- Start date
textoothpk
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Welcome, trooper!
I'm figuring that these are from the scrimshaw series... there is a flood of these on ebay & at online wholesalers (where many ebay sellers get their goods). As they have no scrimshaw on them, the knives are sold as 'ivory' usually. I am guessing that you are referring to a non-scrimed knife.
In the 'Scrimshaw of the Great American Outdoors' multi-year series by schrade, both knives were used several times. The earliest I see the 513 issued was 1987, 1988 for the 515. If your knives have animals scrimed on them, let me know what they are and I can tell you the date issued.
Of course that does not mean the non-scrimed knives were meant to be part of the 'Outdoors' series... These knives were also used as advertisers / giveaways by some companies. I have a 513 with the 'Cronotron' logo (welding supplies), and a couple more around here.
Someone else may have more ideas on your knives..
Phil
I'm figuring that these are from the scrimshaw series... there is a flood of these on ebay & at online wholesalers (where many ebay sellers get their goods). As they have no scrimshaw on them, the knives are sold as 'ivory' usually. I am guessing that you are referring to a non-scrimed knife.
In the 'Scrimshaw of the Great American Outdoors' multi-year series by schrade, both knives were used several times. The earliest I see the 513 issued was 1987, 1988 for the 515. If your knives have animals scrimed on them, let me know what they are and I can tell you the date issued.
Of course that does not mean the non-scrimed knives were meant to be part of the 'Outdoors' series... These knives were also used as advertisers / giveaways by some companies. I have a 513 with the 'Cronotron' logo (welding supplies), and a couple more around here.
Someone else may have more ideas on your knives..
Phil
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cavtrpr340,
I also have some Schrade knives. I am sorry to see that after over a century of cutlery production, they become defunct a few years ago. They had made some good knives for the money.
I also have some Schrade knives. I am sorry to see that after over a century of cutlery production, they become defunct a few years ago. They had made some good knives for the money.
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Welcome cavtrpr340, from an old Vietnam Marine. Semper Fi!
This is a great place to learn all about Schrades........as well as the place to become a Schradeaholic.
Me- "Hi, I'm Dale, I'm a Schradeaholic."
Everyone in unison- "Hi Dale."
Welcome theunknowncook!
I hope you guys stick around. We have lots of fun here and share a lot of info about Schrades.
Dale
This is a great place to learn all about Schrades........as well as the place to become a Schradeaholic.
Me- "Hi, I'm Dale, I'm a Schradeaholic."
Everyone in unison- "Hi Dale."
Welcome theunknowncook!
I hope you guys stick around. We have lots of fun here and share a lot of info about Schrades.
Dale
Codger_64
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The artist's date does not always indicate the year the knife was issued. And Frank did not always sign and date them. But the date, when found, can approximate the release of the design. Some designs were produced more than once, I believe. And a few will be seen as mirror images such as the dog baying the bear. On one version, the image is on the right handle facing one way, and on the other version, it is on the left handle facing the other way. This was not an error as the scrim dies cannot be "flopped", and the signature on the art is readable in both versions. The two versions have different model numbers, each tangstamped on the art side. The one seen most often is the 502SC with the image on handle right (bear on left, dog on right), and the less commonly seen issue is the SC205 with the scrim on handle left (bear on right, dog on left). My SC205 is art dated 1983. Levine states that as the year for the 502SC version, but does not note the SC205. For those not familiar with the scrimshaw series, the 502SC is the 152OT Sharpfinger pattern with white ("ivory") delrin with a stamped and inked artwork pattern approximating old hand applied whale tooth scrimshaw. I feel like Frank Giorgianni's idea (first submitted by him in two designs and approved for production in 1976) was sparked by the custom imprints which Schrade had been applying to horticultural knives for a long time, turning an advertising method to art. His son, Tom, is a member here, so maybe he will read this and can confirm or refute this for us.
Codger
Codger
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THanks, for all the great info. Gents, the 513,515 i have are the blank's one was an ebay buy the other i got in a trade for a couple of kabar folders. i like the 3OT style knife and try to get odd models of it i also have a 3 OT with black handles and no old timer shield any one know what that is about? To orvet: thanks for your Brave and loyal sevice lost a cousin in 69 at pleiku 16th Reg. 4th Div. as for me B Co. 3/340 85th Div. 81-90 Thanks again all for the info. CAV.
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Hello all
.
Frank Giorgianni was the artist for Schrade prior to the scrimshaw series. In the early 70s he was creating the artwork for the blade etchings. In 1975, he created a scrimshaw sample that was given to Henry Baer. Both sides of the knife were scrimshawed and the blades were etched, a really awesome knife. Henry Baer liked the knife, gave the knife back to my father along with the approval for the scrimshaw idea. However, this knife was never produced as is. The artwork of the two sides of this sample were touched up and used on two different knives (152SC and 260SC), which were released in 1976. Also, the blade etch of the early knives were different.
The year that appears in the artwork is the year of the artwork creation, not necessarily the production year (although they usually are the same). For example, some of the scrimshaws released in 1979 by Schrade were the artwork of 1978. By 1978, Schrade had begun to standardize the numbering of the scrimshaw series, where each number would begin with a 5. In 1979 all of the great outdoors series knives would begin with a 5 (ie. 500SC, 501SC, 503SC, 505SC, 506SC, 508SC). Other knives were produced with scrimshaw by Schrade for their customers, which did not follow the 5 number designations (ie. They are not part of the great outdoors series).
CODGER, with respects to your SC205, image in reverse, I would have to see a picture to be sure (if you could post one it would be great, please include the tang stamp with the artwork as clear as possible). Without seeing the knife I would guess one of three things happened with that knife, 1) it was a knife produced for a customer of Schrade, that is why it does not begin with 5, 2) it was an original or R&D scrimshaw done by my father on a SC205 blank (which was made for a customer of Schrade but was not stamped), or 3) it was produced and released after 1992 and I would not have record of this knife. From what I have been told, some of my father's artwork was used/reused after his retirement.
CYKC posting a photo would help. Without a photo, I would not be able to verify if you have a production, sample, R&D, or original knife. Please make sure your photo has the tang stamp showing with the artwork.
Tom
Frank Giorgianni was the artist for Schrade prior to the scrimshaw series. In the early 70s he was creating the artwork for the blade etchings. In 1975, he created a scrimshaw sample that was given to Henry Baer. Both sides of the knife were scrimshawed and the blades were etched, a really awesome knife. Henry Baer liked the knife, gave the knife back to my father along with the approval for the scrimshaw idea. However, this knife was never produced as is. The artwork of the two sides of this sample were touched up and used on two different knives (152SC and 260SC), which were released in 1976. Also, the blade etch of the early knives were different.
The year that appears in the artwork is the year of the artwork creation, not necessarily the production year (although they usually are the same). For example, some of the scrimshaws released in 1979 by Schrade were the artwork of 1978. By 1978, Schrade had begun to standardize the numbering of the scrimshaw series, where each number would begin with a 5. In 1979 all of the great outdoors series knives would begin with a 5 (ie. 500SC, 501SC, 503SC, 505SC, 506SC, 508SC). Other knives were produced with scrimshaw by Schrade for their customers, which did not follow the 5 number designations (ie. They are not part of the great outdoors series).
CODGER, with respects to your SC205, image in reverse, I would have to see a picture to be sure (if you could post one it would be great, please include the tang stamp with the artwork as clear as possible). Without seeing the knife I would guess one of three things happened with that knife, 1) it was a knife produced for a customer of Schrade, that is why it does not begin with 5, 2) it was an original or R&D scrimshaw done by my father on a SC205 blank (which was made for a customer of Schrade but was not stamped), or 3) it was produced and released after 1992 and I would not have record of this knife. From what I have been told, some of my father's artwork was used/reused after his retirement.
CYKC posting a photo would help. Without a photo, I would not be able to verify if you have a production, sample, R&D, or original knife. Please make sure your photo has the tang stamp showing with the artwork.
Tom
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cavtrpr340,
Sorry about your cousin. We lost a lot of good men in Vietnam. China supplied a lot of the ammo and rockets shot at us, which is why I have such a problem buying a Chinese knife. We have been on the receiving end of too much Chinese steel already. I have known many Chinese people, and love them, they are great people. Many are very brave, like those who faced the tanks at Tienanmen Square.......I however refuse to support the repressive Chinese communist government by buying their knives or guns.
cykc,
if you have problems posting pictures just email them to me and I will post them for you. my email addy is: dalervincent@comcast.net
Tom,
I always appreciate your informative posts about your Dad and his excellent art work! Thanks, and keep posting.
Redshanks,
Thanks for serving! :thumbup:
Dale
[URL=http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/orvet/1maw.gif]
[/URL]
1972
Sorry about your cousin. We lost a lot of good men in Vietnam. China supplied a lot of the ammo and rockets shot at us, which is why I have such a problem buying a Chinese knife. We have been on the receiving end of too much Chinese steel already. I have known many Chinese people, and love them, they are great people. Many are very brave, like those who faced the tanks at Tienanmen Square.......I however refuse to support the repressive Chinese communist government by buying their knives or guns.
cykc,
if you have problems posting pictures just email them to me and I will post them for you. my email addy is: dalervincent@comcast.net
Tom,
I always appreciate your informative posts about your Dad and his excellent art work! Thanks, and keep posting.
Redshanks,
Thanks for serving! :thumbup:
Dale
[URL=http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/orvet/1maw.gif]
[/URL]1972
textoothpk
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CYKC.. I am going by the chart of the Great American Outdoors knives published in BR Levines guide. It only lists knives made from 1976 to 1996.. but I read your elk ('bugling') as part of the 1984 series. It is a Sharpfinger, and sold for $16.
Tom.. It is such a pleasure to have you post here and you always have informative things for us. I suppose your dad knows this, and I hope it makes him feel good: His work is held in very high regard by many of us.
Fellow brothers in arms..
12Bravo40
18th Engineer Brigade
Northern I corps
RVN, 1970-71
Phil
Tom.. It is such a pleasure to have you post here and you always have informative things for us. I suppose your dad knows this, and I hope it makes him feel good: His work is held in very high regard by many of us.
Fellow brothers in arms..
12Bravo40
18th Engineer Brigade
Northern I corps
RVN, 1970-71
Phil
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Sorry I did not respond earlier. I had to ask my dad about this one to be sure. The SC205 shown above was released in 1983 for customer(s) of Schrade. However, he did not know who the customer(s) were. As stated earlier, this is not part of the great outdoors. Schrade had produced several scrimshaws for various customers. Unfortunately, I do not have any further information about production amounts or value of this particular knife.
Hope this was helpful.
Tom
Hope this was helpful.
Tom
Codger_64
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The value is an unimportant detail, I think. The fact that they were done for a reason, not by error, is important. Someday quantities may become known, but until then, just knowing that it was an SFO, and the approximate date is plenty. Thanks again, Tom. Your knowledge and input is always appreciated here. Schrade history is sorta like Johnny Cash's Cadillac...one piece at a time.
If I may impose once more, you said that your Dad was also the etch artist for Schrade. Are the knives of the Tradesman Series his work? These were very detailed and a delight to behold!
Codger
If I may impose once more, you said that your Dad was also the etch artist for Schrade. Are the knives of the Tradesman Series his work? These were very detailed and a delight to behold!
Codger
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Hello to all and welcome to some of the newer folks. Hello Tom I will not really comment on years ect on the scrims since I believe Tom by virtue of his and his fathers knowledge as well a Codger who has researched these much further than I have can do the subject better than I can.
However I do have a small contribution to the thread that perhapes you may find interesting. Schrade made more scrimshaws than most people would ever imagine. Frank Giorgianni was the original artist not only for these but the artwork etching done on many issues ( like the 75 ann clasp knives. 13 colonies, trail of tear, Custer ect. ) he is a remarkable man and artist. Seeing this thread I grabbed the camera and snapped a few pictures. Now if I tell you what you are about to look at is perhapes 2 percent ( perhapes less ) of those of these that I have paired up with examples of the issues and the paired versions represent less than a third of what still needs to be matched it should give you an idea of what I am talking about. DO NOT LOOK AT THE PICS YET let me finish.
Now the procedure for a scrimed issue was that first the idea (or subject) was given to the Artist. Like hey Frank work me up some pics of a bear and her cub ( THAT IS AN EXAMPLE). Frank then did the pic. When the pic was accepted it was sent to a tool and die company who then made up a steel hot die. The blank knife with delrin or micarta handles was put under a heated press with a piece if color transfer tape in between the press lowered and then. A scrimshaw knife was born. Now in some case many thousands of these knives were made from the one die ( usually unless there was a fault in the die only one die was used for each issue. ) So in effect while there are plenty of knives the dies are unique. NOW LOOK AT THE PICS. Like I said this just a fraction of them. I hope you find this interesting. LT
However I do have a small contribution to the thread that perhapes you may find interesting. Schrade made more scrimshaws than most people would ever imagine. Frank Giorgianni was the original artist not only for these but the artwork etching done on many issues ( like the 75 ann clasp knives. 13 colonies, trail of tear, Custer ect. ) he is a remarkable man and artist. Seeing this thread I grabbed the camera and snapped a few pictures. Now if I tell you what you are about to look at is perhapes 2 percent ( perhapes less ) of those of these that I have paired up with examples of the issues and the paired versions represent less than a third of what still needs to be matched it should give you an idea of what I am talking about. DO NOT LOOK AT THE PICS YET let me finish.
Now the procedure for a scrimed issue was that first the idea (or subject) was given to the Artist. Like hey Frank work me up some pics of a bear and her cub ( THAT IS AN EXAMPLE). Frank then did the pic. When the pic was accepted it was sent to a tool and die company who then made up a steel hot die. The blank knife with delrin or micarta handles was put under a heated press with a piece if color transfer tape in between the press lowered and then. A scrimshaw knife was born. Now in some case many thousands of these knives were made from the one die ( usually unless there was a fault in the die only one die was used for each issue. ) So in effect while there are plenty of knives the dies are unique. NOW LOOK AT THE PICS. Like I said this just a fraction of them. I hope you find this interesting. LT
Codger_64
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Quite interesting and informative as usual, LT! For me at least, the how and why something was done improves the appreciation of what was done and by whom! And the die artifacts are always interesting to see. Mr. Giorgianni had a masterful idea in turning an advertising method into a work of art, and the skill to make it succeed.
As always, I am left with even more questions. Does anyone know the names of the artists who did scrim art after Mr. Giorgianni's retirement? I've run across some attributed to Linda Karst, but that is the only other name I've seen. And Tom has related to us that his Father did do some more for Schrade after his retirement, possibly unsigned. Any idea which ones?
Codger the curious
As always, I am left with even more questions. Does anyone know the names of the artists who did scrim art after Mr. Giorgianni's retirement? I've run across some attributed to Linda Karst, but that is the only other name I've seen. And Tom has related to us that his Father did do some more for Schrade after his retirement, possibly unsigned. Any idea which ones?
Codger the curious