Scout/Camp patterns?

JD Mandrell

JD Mandrell

Joined
Apr 20, 2001
Messages
18,423
Is there a point where the 2 patterns separate, or are they considered to be pretty much the same pattern?

Does having a certain blade or tool move one from a Scout to a Camp for instance?
 
Hummm well I just Googled Scout knife because I really thought that a Scout knife had 4 blades --a spear, screw driver with a bottle opener combo, a can opener and a punch blade, but now I have found I was wrong. I found Scout knives that were folders and straight knives, and had anywhere from 1 to 8 blades that do a variety of different things (almost turning into tools). I also found knives that said they were Scout knives but did not have the Scout logo. You have asked a very good question. The only difference that I can see is that a Scout knife has the Boy Scout, or Girl Scout emblem on it. Maybe others have more information that I just don't know about.:confused:
 
I think this water has been muddied for many, many years. "Official Boy Scout" knives followed earlier "Utility/Camp/Automobile & Radio" knives.

When NYKC got the license to produce the "official" knives, many other makers were quick to jump into the market with their versions both domestic and imported. SOme used tricky wording on the shields and ads to deceive the buyers into thinking they were sanctioned by the BSA. Lawsuits by BSA followed and changes were made by many companies. Then NYKC went under and BSA granted license to other companies. Remington, IKAC, Ulster, and Camillus come to mind.

Albert Baer stated that his salvation after acquiring Ulster from the Divine family in early 1941 was that he had license to the Scout kniives, then produced a variant for military use during WWII using a lot of existing tooling and parts.

Different versions of utility knives were made with anywhere from three to five blades for the most part. And yes, back in the earlier part of the century, sheath knives were sanctioned and made with BSA markings.

There are collector reference books on the subject of "Scout Knives". I don't have one, but they are presented by BRL in his forum, possibly available from Knife World Publications.

Codger
 
The organization BSA was incorporated in 1910. Yes, the utility patterns under various names predated that. I have a few old Kastor imports (Germany, Austria, Czecoslovakia, etc.) that predate the BSA incorporation I believe. SOme have only three blades/implements and some have ten or more.
 
Victorinox started making SAKs in the 1890's when did the other companies start making Camp Knives?
 
I don't know about American manufature, but I think I recall some of the Sheffield firms making pocket knives with some tools on them in the 1870's to 80's. Maybe if smiling-knife comes wondering through he'll give us some nice pic's.

As far as Americans, I think there were some civil war era pocket knives for horsemen with stone hook and files on them for care of the hrses hooves.

Was the term "camp knife" an American original, or was it ever used in European factory brochures pre 1900?
 
As my tastes change I get more interested in scout and utilities by the day.There probably twice as hard to find because of the multi collector factor,Scout/knives.
 
This is an interesting thread. Multi-tools made in Sheffield, Solingen and, I expect, the US pre-date both the start of the scouting movement and the time when 'camp' pattern knives emerged. The nature of multi-tools has changed with the times. No longer do they contain button hooks, hoof picks and cigar forks.

Victorinox knives first appeared in the 1920s. Karl Elsner inititiated the foundation of the Association of Swiss Master Cutlers in 1891 with the purpose of creating a pocket knife for the Swiss army. In 1909 Karl was granted the right to use the Swiss cross mark to differentiate his knives from the copycats in Germany and his mother VICTORIA died. In her memory, he began using the Victoria trademark. Victoria knives started using blades made from the new Inoxydable (stainless) steel in 1923. Shortly thereafter Victorinox evolved as a trade name.

I feel I have digressed from the original post. Apologies to TLC.
 
Always nice to get your cutlery scholarship S-K:thumbup:

I have a French book with pictures in it of a Thiers multi-tool like knife from the end of the 19th century. The scouting movement emerged about the same time as a result of the Boer War 1899-1902 in England and later elsewhere.

Interesting that stainless was used in SAKs as early as the 1920s I always assumed that stainless was near useless until the 1960s.
 
Thank-you willgoy.

"Was the term "camp knife" an American original, or was it ever used in European factory brochures pre 1900? " Jackknife

Many pattern names are relatively recent inventions. In the Wostenholm 1885 catalogue for e.g., there are several pages of simply named 1, 2, 3, and 4 blade knives. Few specific patterns are Sportsman (multi-tool with pick, corkscrew etc), Champagne, Scissor, Nail (lobsters with a file), Corn, and Tobacco (four blade congress). Early British scout and guide knives are very similar to the British military knives... synthetic or metal handles with sheepsfoot, marline spike and can opener.
 
To me, the waters are crystal-clear. If it bears the BSA shield/stamp/etch, it's a Scout knife. Otherwise, it's a "camp" knife, or "Scout-type".
 
But there was an awful lot of unauthorized use of emblems, names and slogans before and after the BSA lawsuit. Schrade, for instance, had several patterns in the 1928 catalog with etches and shielding indicating Boy Scout Knife, including the catalog descriptions. As far as I am aware, they did not hold a license to the BSA trademarks at that time. For example, in the 1940 catalog, shielding changed on the #9463 pattern from "Scouts Prepare" to "Sportsman" and the blade etch SCHRADE Boy Scouts Knife was dropped.

I have ad cut examples from the Camillus/Kastor archives where the shields and etches were physically cut from the artwork with razors to remove infringing references. The knives they illustrate do still exist unchanged.

Codger

Schrade_9463.JPG

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/Schrade_9463.JPG
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top