Scout Leader folding knife?

[Ravaillac]

Opinels are carbon.
They are sharp,
Come with a squared spine,
have a very good locking systems (at least safety wise)
they are inexpensive (children loose knives)

 

[caine]

Not stainless, but looks good I think.

 

[Thomas Linton]

[quoteThey don't allow fixed blades.[/quote]
"They" can be a unit or Council, from the shallow of their profundity. It's certainly not the Boy Scouts of America.

I don't think the adults are supposed to have fixed blade knives either. You'll find them, though, in your cooking kits. When I did survival stuff with the older scouts (my venture crew) we supplemented our folders with hatchets.

Units and Councils with "sheath knife" or "fixed-blade" bans typically say they apply to adults also. But, yes, 8" blade fixed-blade knives are in the utensil sets sold by B.S.A.

Fixed blades aren't against BSA policy, they just aren't recommended.

Absolutely correct - sorta' Two current official B.S.A. publications advocate and show use of 18" OA khukuri's. One shows bolos and machetes. Maybe Khuk's are OK because they are classed as "short swords" and carried in "scabbards" so they are not the "large sheath knife" that's "not encouraged." (whatever that means) B.S.H.B., 12th Ed. at p. 403.
( Ever notice that banners make strange rules 'cause they know relatively nothing about the subject? Like rifle flash suppressors = Boo-BAD! but rifle compensators = A-OK. One BSA publication gives a fileting knife as an example of a "large sheath knife" that IS NOT "not encouraged" because "heavy and awkward to carry")

Wow, I think I would prefer the kids to have fixed blade knives before I'd want them to have hatchets.

Got it in one. :thumbup: Axes, and especially hand axes, are far more dangerous. Kids typically substitute more and more force for technique or sharpness.

Limiting our children to only slip joints and sending the out into the woods is a big mistake in my opinion.

. . . or especially when they will be using large fixed-blades to cook and will encounter them in daily life. More especially because many of the Councils that "ban" "all fixed-blade knives" sell them.

I agree with this. If they can't have fixed blades, how do they learn to safely use them.

You are just intelligent to set policy. Yet information on safe handling and use of fixed-blade knives disappeared from the Handbook and Fieldbook years
ago. Is "diseducational" a word?

When I was in Scouts (almost 20 yrs ago), my Scoutmaster's policy was "no fixed blades," tho they were still for sale in the catalogue. Now, I don't like most of the knives available at the Scout Shop, they're almost all "made in China" except for the SAKs.

The last official B.S.A. sheath knife was built in 1983 -- 50 years after the first. Some few were still around to sell into 1984. (Strangely. I have all the catalogues since 1911.)

After some, ahem, hard feelings from the masses, B.S.A. has quietly put out the word that it has shifted away from CHINA as a manufacturer (whoever "CHINA" might be). Some are still in the pipeline, but knives from Bear are showing up. Colonial was to make some (the standard Cub knife) but was apparently caught claiming U.S.A. origin for non-USA knives.

One of the greatest myths in Scouting is that BSA bans fixed-blade knives, sheath knives, or "hunting knives." It bans no knife.

 

[Normark]

Hey William...

They tried that Fixed bladed BS with me too so, I got my Son a Cold Steel Voyager X2.. Once they seen that thing come out of his pocket,, the Mora fixed blade didn't look so bad anymore.. LOL

Personally thats a Stupid azzed Rules and one I won't follow with my Scouts/Ventures..

They all got Mora 780's this year....

With the blades I carry at Scouts, I'm surprised no one has said anything to me yet.

ttyle

Eric
O/ST

 

[Thomas Linton]

I asked the Program Director of the Scout Camp we went to this year what the "total" ban on "fixed-blade knives" "anywhere on the camp property" meant in light of cooking, wood-carving, and sale of fixed-blades in the Camp Trading Post.

He said he had no idea why the rule was there and said to bring and use whatever tools we wished to use. But he asked, as a "personal favo,r" that we not "carry big honkin' knives around the camp. "Some people are just scared of knives - and water, spiders, snakes - you know."

Of course, he's not a "suit" back at HQ.

 

[DutchV]

Benchmade has a couple of blades in D2, and the little KaBar Dozier folding hunter was D2 as well. The KaBar is discontinued, but goes around $40.

 

[STAGE 2]

Get yourself a rat RC-4 and tell the emasculated ninnys to pound sand.

 

[DutchV]

One more: Boker still makes a full-size Sodbuster with a carbon steel blade. You can find them under twenty bucks, too.

 

[Daniel Koster]

I have mixed feelings on the BSA / fixed-blade thing....but this is not the place for it. I've posted my thoughts on this in many threads here on BFC. so I'll try to remain relevant.


A hatchet may seem more dangerous, but a scout doesn't hook the hatchet to his belt/leg and wear it all day like he would with a fixed blade.



An Opinel is a great recommendation - cheap, strong, sharp and carbon steel. Plus, you can spend "down time" carving the handle.


I have relegated my "Scout Knives" to one of two setups:


Leatherman Charge (is the perfect "Dad" tool....turns any adult into a Mr. Fixit...but doesn't meet your Carbon Steel requirement).

[My Recommendation] Schrade Old Timer Buzz Saw Trapper - has a nice long pointy carbon steel knife blade as well as a very functional saw. Comes with a leather sheath, or slips nicely into a pocket (lightweight).

I've adopted the lightweight, minimal-impact camping method for outdoors activities lately, so I take the above rather than even my own fixed blades.


Best of luck in your search.

Dan

 

[william O]

Thanks for all the input guys!

 

[Thomas Linton]

. . .
A hatchet may seem more dangerous, but a scout doesn't hook the hatchet to his belt/leg and wear it all day like he would with a fixed blade.


Dan

The infrequent USE of axes militates towards less skill in use. However, they remain required for Tot'n'Chip. Usually, in our Troop the Scout seldom uses one after passing for his 'Chip. Saws are used far more frequently.


As for carrying an Axe, I give you "The Ideal Scout" of yesteryear (The first BSA sheath knife showed up 20 years into the program. The axe was there from the first.):

 

[hollowdweller]

 

[raybadge]

The infrequent USE of axes militates towards less skill in use. However, they remain required for Tot'n'Chip. Usually, in our Troop the Scout seldom uses one after passing for his 'Chip. Saws are used far more frequently.

This is excellent advice. The scouts I permitted to have a hatchet were venture scouts, the 15 - 20 year olds. And then they had them only when we were taking a formal survival course, something we did in the spring before going on a two week backcountry trip. Other than that, like Tom said, they carried folding knives and folding saws.

Sometimes I think these kinds of rules have a lot to do with insurance coverage.

 

[mollyhatchet]

I believe Eye Brand makes a lockback Sodbuster in carbon steel.

 

[Thomas Linton]

Beautiful thing, HD, but the corkscrew in Scouts ???

 

[Bushman5]

[quoteThey don't allow fixed blades.

"They" can be a unit or Council, from the shallow of their profundity. It's certainly not the Boy Scouts of America.


Units and Councils with "sheath knife" or "fixed-blade" bans typically say they apply to adults also. But, yes, 8" blade fixed-blade knives are in the utensil sets sold by B.S.A.


One of the greatest myths in Scouting is that BSA bans fixed-blade knives, sheath knives, or "hunting knives." It bans no knife.[/QUOTE]

well there must a lot of fake Boy Scout troops in my area then, because they certainly do ban knives (and fires in some troops, citing BS carbon release/destruction of wood )

 

[Thomas Linton]

"They" can be a unit or Council, from the shallow of their profundity. It's certainly not the Boy Scouts of America.

Units and Councils with "sheath knife" or "fixed-blade" bans typically say they apply to adults also. But, yes, 8" blade fixed-blade knives are in the utensil sets sold by B.S.A.

One of the greatest myths in Scouting is that BSA bans fixed-blade knives, sheath knives, or "hunting knives." It bans no knife."

[W]ell there must a lot of fake Boy Scout troops in my area then, because they certainly do ban knives (and fires in some troops, citing BS carbon release/destruction of wood[.]

Let me try to be clearer.

Think of the B.S.A. as a company that franchises its program. A Council is a master franchisee in an given area that subfranchises the retail-level units (Packs, Troops, Crewa, Teams, Ships).

The franchise plan allows the master franchisees and retail franchises to pass rules governing use of knives. The B.S.A. itself has no such rules.

It is, therefore, a myth that the Boy Scouts of America bans any knife. Many of the banners rely on that myth and are stunned when they are shown that they are incorrect.

A Troop is not The Boy Scouts fo America any more than a given Berger King franchisee is Burger King, Inc. It's Troop X.

Knife rules I find illogical do not make a unit "fake." It's adults are merely wrong, in my opinion, about knives.

Part of my job in my Council is to convince the banners to at least think about their bans in light of the real world in which fixed-blade knives are in almost every single household and are every single Scout cooking utensil set. (Health safety often requires use of fixed-blade knives in preparing food.)

Or I can call them names and accomplish nothing.

 

[LYoung]

As a former Scout leader.(Last Year)
Scouts can use and have fixed blades as long as they carry them in their packs. Not allowed to carry on the belt. I just stuck with a benchmade and a swiss army . Did what I needed .Now my fixed bladed was always near though...

 

[sixgunner455]

That's lovely.

 

[Thomas Linton]

As a former Scout leader.(Last Year)
Scouts can use and have fixed blades as long as they carry them in their packs. Not allowed to carry on the belt. I just stuck with a benchmade and a swiss army . Did what I needed .Now my fixed bladed was always near though...

That was what, your Troop's rule?