Scouters?

Joined
Jan 9, 2006
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Hey guys, I was wondering if there are any other forum members whom are Scouters? Both Lil-Bit and I are active, I am an Assistant Scoutmaster and Committee member in a Boy Scout Troop, and an Associate Advisor on a Venturing Crew. Lil-Bit is the Committee Chair and has also served as an Assistant Scoutmaster in our Troop.
We have two sons involved in Scouting. Lil-Bit's son is a Life Scout and member of a Venturing Crew, and my son is in his 2nd year of Webelos, and will bridge to Boy Scouts in December. Both Lil-Bit and her son are members of the Order of The Arrow.

Mark
 
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I'm a Cubmaster for a Pack here in Concord, CA. Lots of fun, lots of work, lots more to learn. I joined to make sure my son stays motivated to make it to Eagle, if he wants it.

Always good to hear about other Scout folks out there. :thumbup:

thx - cpr
 
I was. I got sick of the local politics of Scouting, but love the concept.

I work in our church now. Basically we do with the kids, what old-school scouting used to be, you know, actual field craft, patriotism and citizenship things.
 
I was going to get my boy involved in Cub Scouts, since I used to be one in the 60s. Things seem to have changed. The introductory meeting was pretty much an explanation of all the upcoming fund-raising events and all the stuff the kids were going to have to go out and sell. When I was a kid we spent alot of our time in the woods and never sold anything. Also, when did they come out with female scoutmasters?
 
I was going to get my boy involved in Cub Scouts, since I used to be one in the 60s. Things seem to have changed. The introductory meeting was pretty much an explanation of all the upcoming fund-raising events and all the stuff the kids were going to have to go out and sell. When I was a kid we spent alot of our time in the woods and never sold anything. Also, when did they come out with female scoutmasters?

That was my take on it as well. As far as fundraising, well, a lot of the stuff that was free when we were kids, ain't free no more. I made clear to my Scout Council that we'll sell popcorn once a year, and that's it. Between school fundraisers, special event fundraisers, etc., my kid is calling family & friends 4-5 times a year. Kinda sad, really. :(

Female Scoutmasters? I don't mind that so much. My biggest concern is getting parents to participate.

thx - cpr
 
I was going to get my boy involved in Cub Scouts, since I used to be one in the 60s. Things seem to have changed. The introductory meeting was pretty much an explanation of all the upcoming fund-raising events and all the stuff the kids were going to have to go out and sell. When I was a kid we spent alot of our time in the woods and never sold anything. Also, when did they come out with female scoutmasters?
The fundraising thing has existed at least since I joined in 1954. Do you have a problem with Cubs helping?

Now, Cubs only spend time "in the woods" in their last two years. When I was a Scout, Cubs were not supposed to camp, though they could hike some.

In Boy Scouting, fund-rasing started with "A Scout is Thrifty." "Scouts are expected to pay their own way." That would be 1907. Actually, Scouts did more fund-rasing when I was a Scout. No FOS (Friends of Scouting) in those days - that would be begging for charity, but it's OK now. If your experience was in Boy Scouts and the Scouts never helped raise funds, your adult leaders were not following the rules. (Actually, my Troop had a "money machine" in the form of fireworks sales in California. Too much money.)

Women in Commissioned Scouting positions came almost twenty years ago. Perhaps, contemplating the constant shortage of adult help (the ratio of boys to adults has gotten steadily worse since about 1972), someone noticed that over half the adult population were female. On other hand, no more "Den Mothers." A man can be the "Den Leader." A good many are. Still, the vast majority of uniformed Cubbing leaders are female and the vast majority of uniformed Scouting leaders are male -- and the adult shortage gets worse.

I will have forty years in come next June.
 
Scouting was my only extracurricular activity, aside from high school debate, as a kid. Enjoyed it a lot. Great parents. Great leaders. Almost too good. You pretty much just had to show up and merit badges were earned. Got my Eagle at 13. Too bad; if I'd had to struggle a bit, I think it would have meant a bit more.

I'm still involved when I'm volunteered by my church, but I move so much I'm usually not in long.

Fondest memories are the native american leanings of the Order of the Arrow. Loved the night spent on the mountain tending the fire and meditating. Awesome experience. Ended up taking that as far as a Vigil member of the Order.

I hated fund-raising as a kid. Good experience for those who might become salesmen someday, but for someone whose personality naturally abhors sales, couldn't stand it. I'm more than happy to contribute to the Friends of Scouting funding thing; anything to keep the boys from having to peddle.
 
The fundraising thing has existed at least since I joined in 1954. Do you have a problem with Cubs helping?

Now, Cubs only spend time "in the woods" in their last two years. When I was a Scout, Cubs were not supposed to camp, though they could hike some.

In Boy Scouting, fund-rasing started with "A Scout is Thrifty." "Scouts are expected to pay their own way." That would be 1907. Actually, Scouts did more fund-rasing when I was a Scout. No FOS (Friends of Scouting) in those days - that would be begging for charity, but it's OK now. If your experience was in Boy Scouts and the Scouts never helped raise funds, your adult leaders were not following the rules. (Actually, my Troop had a "money machine" in the form of fireworks sales in California. Too much money.)

I think the problem most have (including me) is that fundraising has seemed to become the focus of scouting, rather than merely a means to and end. Far more time seems to be spent on fundraising than on citizenship and skills.

Let's be blunt: scouting originally was to prepare young men for military duty. You had to learn to assemble and maintain a uniform. As a good citizen and soldier, you needed to know certain things in regards to citizenship. Then came skills that were handy to have as a soldier and later as a self reliant (you know, the way we USED to be) citizen. Finally discipline and a sense of honor.

I ditched the local scouting organization because all the mommies wanted to do was fundraising and making their little boys look cute (talking Boy Scouts here, not Cub Scouts). They wouldn't sign for their boys to go out camping unless it was at a camp ground. They didn't allow certain skillsets to be taught such as firemaking and knife and hatchet skills (all too dangerous, or so mommy thinks). Anything that lead to self reliance was suppressed. Citizenship had the kibosh put to it at "too extreme, we're an international community now".

I don't have a problem with women Cub Scout leaders, but am against woman Boy Scout leaders. Sorry, but men are who should be teaching boys to become men. Women simply don't know how to do it, any more than a man can properly teach a girl to become a woman.

I used to be upset at the lack of men willing to be scout leaders, except when I found out why. Too much politics. Real men are now doing much of what scouts used to do with their kids on their own, or with other groups, like our church group I mentioned earlier. Men who don't teach their boys how to be men, well, shame on you.
 
Our Unit does Popcorn one a year. Some years we do a Bowl-a-thon to help raise money for awards and stuff, as well as camperships for Summer Camp. Our Troop is very active in the outdoors, and does at least one camping weekend a month. My fiance, Lil-Bit is Committee Chair, and sticks to the BSA program closely. She attends Roundtable monthly, as do I, and several of our Troop leaders. If a LEADER follows the BSA program guides, and uses the resources provided, the boys will get the benefits of the program, as far as they are willing/able to internalize them. Lil-Bit is not the only very competent, well trained female Leader we know in our District. There are several, and they bring years of dedication and experience to the program.
I have more of a problem with leaders of any gender that don't use the resources, wanna do it their way, and then get between dedicated scouters and quality program goals and implementation. ARGGGG.

Rant over
 
I don't know of a single Scouting unit where "Far more time seems to be spent on fundraising than on citizenship and skills." Not nearly. Perhaps you do. Or it could be the "seems" part.

Certainly, those who earn a living in Scouting are quite concerned with fund-raising. It could hardly be otherwise.

The claim that Scouting was created to prepare young men for the military has been made. If that were the case, what is the situation today?

But it does not seem to be true that either Baden Powell or the arly natinoal leaders in the U.S. saw Scouting as a factory to produce soldiers. The very first "Scouting" literature was a series of articles (gathered into a book) by Baden Powell called "Scouting for Boys" in which he specifically wrote about the need for and benefits of "peace scouts" and "peace scouting." Seeing the wilderness as corrective of the corrupting influence of the late Victorian city -- a natural school for training responsible, self-reliant citizens -- hardly seems like preparation for war, and Baden Powell expressly saw Scouting post-WWI as a movement to prevent war by creating a world brotherhood of Scouting.

The uniform? Surely it proves a paramilitary intent. No. The uniform was seen then as attracting boys and is seen now by many as a barrier to entry - not cool in the 21st Century. But unifrom-wearing is common in many non-military organizations, nurses say -- or baseball teams.

There was a "Scouting" organization in the early years in the U.S. that was expressly military, the "American Boy Scouts" (later the "United States Boy Scouts"), but it lost the contest to be "the" Scouting movement here in a few years to the B.S.A., which also expressly talked about Scouting and peace, not war, in its very earliest literature.

When the U.S. entered WWI and WWII, the B.S.A. strongly supported the war effort, as did almost every American institution. Those were the "good wars."

I can testify that by 1954, the Boy Scouts were anything but military. In fact, we were picketed regularly by the John Birch Society on the grounds that we were Communist Dupes -- or worse. We were said to be 'weakening the morale fiber of America" by having a "World Brotherhood" Merit Badge.
(Not to mention racially integrated Troops!)

Were there - are there -- adult leaders who mistake A Scout Troop as their own "platoon" of young troopers? Sure. They are a probelm to be solved, not exemplars of what Scouting is all about.

Women, as noted, are staistically a small proportion of commissioned Scouters. I have never heard that they can fill the "male role model" slot and have not seen any try. Overall, they are a benefit to Scouting, as is true of male Scouters. I wish there were more men -- and women -- willing to spend the "one hour a week."

Men do not spend time helping with Scouting for a variety of reasons. I have heard a multitude of reasons over nearly forty years why adult males can't help with Scouting, but never, before today, heard it was due to women in Scouting. Life is a discovery process. In any event, any excuse will do.
Speaking bluntly, of course. :D
 
Men do not spend time helping with Scouting for a variety of reasons. I have heard a multitude of reasons over nearly forty years why adult males can't help with Scouting, but never, before today, heard it was due to women in Scouting. Life is a discovery process. In any event, any excuse will do.
Speaking bluntly, of course. :D

Interesting, not sure where you heard that, because it isn't what I said. ;)
 
Absolutely correct. You did not say that.


The Nomination Database for the Nobel Prize
in Peace, 1901-1955
Year: 1928
Number: 4-9

Nominee:
Name: Sir Robert Stephenson Smyth Baden-Powell
Gender: M
Year, birth: 1857
Year, death: 1941
Profession/Category: Army officer. Founder of the Boy Scouts movement.
City: London
Country: GB (UNITED KINGDOM)

Motivation: Baden-Powell founded the Boy Scouts movement in 1907 and he organized the movement internationally. He and his sister Agnes founded the Girl Guides in 1910 (in the US Girls Scouts from 1912). In 1916 Baden-Powell organized the Wolf Cubs in Great Britain (Cub Scouts in the US) for boys under the age of 11. The nominators emphasized the brotherly mentality and the non-militaristic character of the movement.


Nominator:

Name: Viktor Dyk
Gender: M
Profession/Category: Member of the Czechoslovakian Senate
City: Prague
Country: CZ (CZECH REPUBLIC)

Evaluation:

Evaluator 1:
Name: Jakob Worm-Müller
Gender: M


The Nomination Database for the Nobel Prize
in Peace, 1901-1955
Year: 1928
Number: 4-8

Nominee:
Name: Sir Robert Stephenson Smyth Baden-Powell
Gender: M
Year, birth: 1857
Year, death: 1941
Profession/Category: Army officer. Founder of the Boy Scouts movement.
City: London
Country: GB (UNITED KINGDOM)

Motivation: Baden-Powell founded the Boy Scouts movement in 1907 and he organized the movement internationally. He and his sister Agnes founded the Girl Guides in 1910 (in the US Girls Scouts from 1912). In 1916 Baden-Powell organized the Wolf Cubs in Great Britain (Cub Scouts in the US) for boys under the age of 11. The nominators emphasized the brotherly mentality and the non-militaristic character of the movement.


Nominator:

Name: Viscount Hakushaku Goto Shimpei
Gender: M
Profession/Category: Member of the Japanese government
City: Tokyo
Country: JP (JAPAN)

Evaluation:

Evaluator 1:
Name: Jakob Worm-Müller
Gender: M

Comment: Goto Shimpei nominated Baden-Powell on behalf of 5 other Japanese persons.


B-P was said to have been nominated in 1939, but no Peace Prise was awarded for that year. Something about a war.
 
The fundraising thing has existed at least since I joined in 1954. Do you have a problem with Cubs helping?
QUOTE]

One fund raising effort that impressed me was water softener salt, but I think the Boy Scouts were doing it. They took orders, and since I hate picking the stuff up constantly myself I ordered a 2-year supply from them. When it was delivered, a long line of boys hauled it down into my basement and stacked it, like a line of ants. Very well worth the price. Apparently it didn't work out for them though, because they have since reverted back to selling Christmas wreaths. I'm out of salt now and would rather buy more of that.

It seems to me that the fund raising should be a very occasional thing for a special purpose. When I was a Cub Scout we toured police stations, fire halls, meat packing plants, hospital emergency rooms, etc. at no charge. There was always some guy happy to show us around and explain things without us having to go door-to-door to pay for it. Once we had an ambulance show up at our meeting and take us around the block with the siren on. That was a good time, and free too. Of course, "liability" isn't what it used to be either.
 
A "week" (six days) at an official Boy Scout Summer Camp is $250/ea and up. Scouting teaches that the Scout should earn the $$.
(We do our own Summer Camp every other year, eat better, and save 40%.)

Outdoor gear costs. If the Troop camps year-round, as it should, there is inevitablly the need to replace tents, dinning flies, etc.

Food is needed for the weekend trips. Scouting teaches that the Scouts should earn the $$.

All this militates towards regular fund-raising.

Absent the funds from some source, we would do things differently.
 
Motivation: Baden-Powell founded the Boy Scouts movement in 1907 and he organized the movement internationally.

As he did so, Rudyard Kipling was hitting the peak of his literary stride. Do they still call the Cub Master "Akela?" My recollections of Cub Scouting still have a distinct Victorian tinge to them, and I wonder if any of that remains in the current program, anywhere.
 
Law of the Pack

The Cub Scout follows Akela.
The Cub Scout helps the pack go.
The pack helps the Cub Scout grow.
The Cub Scout gives goodwill.

2009
 
I'm an Eagle Scout. But I'm not active, and haven't been since I was 16.
 
I was in the BSA from Tiger Cubs all the way through Boy scouts...by the time I got into the Boy scouts, I was part of the most active and largest troop in the state. I had a great time for a while....then the drama started...then I got screwed....I was put 1st on the Reserve list for the Grand Canyon 50 mile hike, I participated on EVERY training hike, until I qualified for the 50 miler. I was told I was on the list to go, FOR SURE, because someone dropped. Not a week later I was told I was kicked off the list by a scoutmaster so he could go with his son.
The next week I went to the meeting and said I quit.

I think I idea for the scouts was a great one, then it turned into a fund raising campaign and became full of political BS. It really left a bad taste in my mouth that the whole Troop leadership let this happen. I wish we should go back to the roots of scouting, too many troops these days dont even really go out in the woods and learn any survival skills.
 
I was told I was on the list to go, FOR SURE, because someone dropped. Not a week later I was told I was kicked off the list by a scoutmaster so he could go with his son.

This is totally bogus - but a good introduction to the nepotism and cronyism that must be faced with irritating frequency these days.

The odd thing about all this fund raising is that the scouts around here are raising money so they can hike in New Mexico. Every year we see Boy Scouts from New Mexico who have raised money so they can canoe around here. Nobody is content with the land that has been put before them and if these young men are not taught otherwise their entire lives will be fund raising events.
 
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