Scuba experiment

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Jun 15, 2015
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I was curious about stainless options for a scuba knife, and I run a little experiment to see how workable a "regular" stainless was on rough environments.

Here're the params:
- 154cm (not cpm)
- Sub zero quench.
- Austenized at the top of the range (maximum as quench hardness after sub-zero treatment)
- Citric acid passivated: 40C for 12 hs.
- Matte finish to 1000 grit and then back to 600 grit.

The theory behind the test:
- The cpm variant may have a marginally better corrosion resistance due to the more homogeneous structure. Whether this effect is large enough to be noticed I don't know.
- Corrosion resistance is highly dependent on the austenizing temperature due to less carbon taking up chromium. The higher the temperature, the better the corrosion resistance.
- The workable maximum for austenizing temperature is limited by retained austenite. Lowering the minimum quench temperature allows for a higher austenizing temperatures before retained aus. becomes a problem.
- The oxide layer providing the corrosion resistance is at equilibrium with the redox potential of the environment. Passivation does not provide any long term advantage here. It does, however, take care of small non-stainless inclusions that can happen during the grinding process, reducing thus the chances of a false negative during the test.
- A mirror polish enhances the corrosion resistance via two mechanisms: Reduction of the surface area (probably not an issue with stainless unless in a confined space with limited oxidative potential) and by removing any deep pits and scratches that may start pitting corrosion.

Some practical limitations.
- I used the non-cpm variant since I had it at hand.
- I don't have a setup for liquid nitrogen, so I went with dry ice. I doubt the difference is big, but it would be worth testing.
- The optimum austenizing temperature was done with several coupons at different temperatures. The temperature providing the maximum as-quench hardness after sub-zero was used. The hardness vs. temperature curve peaks shallowly, and then drops sharply. This makes easier to identify the drop and dial it down a few degrees.
- I was time pressed, so I couldn't go for a full mirror polish.

The test:
I took two 5-day scuba trips to the Channel Islands in a period of 1 month. The routine was to have 5 to 10 dives a day, and no fresh water for cleanup. The equipment was left wet on deck between dives and through the night. Rinsing only happened after getting back home after each trip. Daytime temperatures were in the mid 80s, dropping to the low 70s at night.

The results:
After the second trip, the two knives had 3 or 4 small superficial rust spots. All of them cleaned easily with a kitchen scotch-brite in less than a minute. Close inspection (visual, unassisted) showed no signs of pitting at the center of the spots. There was no noticeable edge degradation due to corrosion (there were not used).

The conclusions:
I feel confident than this material and treatment will work perfectly for me, and the added sharpness I'm getting from this steel is a welcomed change in contrast to the cheap 440a Chinese crap that all scuba stores sell. They do require maintenance, but this is minimal in contrast to all the rest of my scuba equipment.
I would also recommend this steel/treatment to any knowledgable client capable of understanding this results. I would be a little uneasy to market it to a broader audience, though.

Regards,
 
afaik, all stainless used in cutlery will rust under harsh conditions.
Even austenitic stainless can corrode: particularly challenging are hypoxic, hi chloride media.
 
Yes, but corrosion on a dive knife isn't all that critical - remember at each day's end you're washing all equip down with fresh water anyway. That should include the dive knife.
 
Well, critical is relative. Eventually it becomes a PR problem. And yes, most of the time you rinse the equipment. Except when you're on a multi day boat trip. In this sense this was a worst case scenario, but realistic nonetheless.
 
I tested in sea water (Mediterranean See) several different steels from AISI420c to N690c, passing through the 440c and 154CM. The steel from which I obtained the best oxide resistance was the 420c (less carbon is present better it is) but as we all know it does not have a great resistance to abrasion and easily lose the edge. I am a blue water hunter and free dive, the knife needs me light and very sharp, so it has two tasks:
- finish the fish;
- save my life, if I get caught up in peaks or fishing nylon.
Whatever the stainless steel used is very important that the finish is mirrored, any roughness creates rust.
I'd like to try a LC200N steel

my two cent
__________________-
Riccardo Mainolfi
 
I'm wondering how using zinc in one way or another incorporated into the knife would help. Maybe using thin sheet material as a liner material. I know it wouldn't help much while in an oxygen atmosphere as it doesn't offer much cathodic protection in air, but might help prolong it's life while under water. It would be an interesting experiment none the less to see if it has any benefits.
 
Very cool- thank you for sharing! I am a divemaster- and find that most commercially produced dive knives aren't all that great. I've been considering making a few of my own from 440C, that gives some good info to go off of!
 
The vast majority of commercially available dive knives are complete garbage.

Titanium is the only real solution if you want a 100% rustproof knife.

When I was diving a lot, I just carried a serrated Victorinox paring knife.

It was reasonably rust resistant, and cheap enough that I didn't really care if I lost it.
 
".... Titanium is the only real solution if you want a 100% rustproof knife. ..."'

Not really so. I have made several in dendritic cobalt. It makes a great dive or survival knife. Edge life isn't as good as a carbon/stainless blade, but that is not the main issue with a dive/survival knife. It only has to be sharp for a fairly short period of time.

Others have used Stellite and Talonite.



This reminds me that I have four bars of David Boye's dendritic cobalt that I found in a drawer a few weeks ago. I should make another run of dive knives.
 
".... Titanium is the only real solution if you want a 100% rustproof knife. ..."'

Not really so. I have made several in dendritic cobalt. It makes a great dive or survival knife. Edge life isn't as good as a carbon/stainless blade, but that is not the main issue with a dive/survival knife. It only has to be sharp for a fairly short period of time.

Others have used Stellite and Talonite.



This reminds me that I have four bars of David Boye's dendritic cobalt that I found in a drawer a few weeks ago. I should make another run of dive knives.

If you do make another run of dive knives, could you please send me a picture? I might be interested....
 
While I haven't gone diving or anything in a long time and still been a few years since doing some salt water fishing a dive knife/salt water knife is something I am interested in. I have heard good things about H1 that Spyderco uses on its Salt series but I don't like the blade shapes and for anything I will have on me in the water I'm not sure I want to trust a folder design to not rust somewhere I can't reach. I am not thrilled with Titanium sure this type knife edge retention is not a high priority but I just feel that there has to be something better than Titanium in edge retention while still being highly corrosion resistant or proof.
 
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