Searching for the ice axe that killed Leon Trotsky!

Kevin Houtzager said:
Thats the exact same thing! So I don't know what your point is? Extra on the other hand isn't german. They understand it fine because of English classes and Influence, but that came after WW II. As for german in General: Germany is about an hour away from where I lived and I even worked there for more then a year. I don't have to translate it via some translate program, which do get the point across, but aren't as accurate as you would think. So make your own conclusions based of that.
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Ahhh..., nope.

It is most certinly NOT 'the exact same thing.'

The word 'WerkGEMEINschaft' is NOT the same word as 'WerkGENOSSENschaft.

The different spelling should be a hint.

Again, notice the stamp and the spelling, I mentioned in post #36.

Yes, you are right, speaking German certainly is an advantage in these discussion.

Having just left Hamburg, I could not agree more.

Speaking German (which I have since I was a toddler) certainly helps - especially when you are hungry and thirsty in Germany .... or need directions....not that real men ask directions; they just yell loudly at the GPS...in German.

Ahh, Hamburg..., Kiez.
 
Kevin Houtzager said:
Right: Not the xact same thing, but it is in the same ballpark:

The only difference between a "werkgemeinschaft" and a "werkgenossenschaft" is that the first is a "working community" and the latter being a "Working corporation". The difference being that first doesn't have to be individual partners in the same business, but the latter are. The only difference being in the legal department.

I mean, come on? Really???? In Dutch we call that a "Werkgemeenschap" en "Werkvennootschap". Both being again the same apart form a legal standpoint.
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Dude....!!??

You are on record for saying, that the two words are 'the exact same thing.'

They are obviously not.

They are spelled differently.

They have different meanings, which are obviously not 'the exact same thing.'

Further more, you claim, that 'Werkgen Fulpmes' stands for 'Werkgemeinschaft,' when I have shown the company stamp with 'Werkgenossenschaft Fulpmes' spelled out over and over again and have linked to it!!!!!!

TZTtjwo.jpg

This back and forth with you is now beyond futile and ends here for my part.

This is a dead end and I wont reciprocate again.

Back to piolets/ice axes.
 
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BladeScout said:
History rocks!

I know of WWII collapsible canoes used in clandestine operations, I find the Italian Maiale and the British derivative, the Chariot intriguing - not least because of the fantastic tales of daring do of the brave soldiers who operated them - but I had to read up on Sleeping Beauties.

Seems there is a Sleeping Beauty in the Naval Museum in Oslo, Norway.

Cant wait to know more about the sub you donated to the Spy museum.

But this is OT.

Did I mention, history rocks!

boo6rLs.jpg
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Hi Blade Scout... Yes, this is the Sleeping Beauty. There is also one at the Royal Marine Museum in the UK, and a partial sub in Australia. My SB was purchased by the OSS from the SOE around 1943. They produced approximately 110of them during the war. It became the forerunner to the SEAL’s SDV (Swimmer Delivery Vehicle). THE OSS never used my boat in combat, but the Brits did on several occassions. Their most famous SB operation was the failed attack on Singapore Harbor (Operation Rimau).
 
USNA’66 said:
Hi Blade Scout... Yes, this is the Sleeping Beauty. There is also one at the Royal Marine Museum in the UK, and a partial sub in Australia. My SB was purchased by the OSS from the SOE around 1943. They produced approximately 110of them during the war. It became the forerunner to the SEAL’s SDV (Swimmer Delivery Vehicle). THE OSS never used my boat in combat, but the Brits did on several occassions. Their most famous SB operation was the failed attack on Singapore Harbor (Operation Rimau).
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Mind blowing, that the Sleeping Beauty was preserved for ages - are you at liberty to tell us the background to your SB?

Its OT, so perfectly understandable if not ...
 
My SB (serial #072) went to Little Creek, VA and was used by the USN and CIA to perfect a system for underwater communication between multiple boats in the early 1950s. It then disappeared and went onto the gov. surplus list and next surfaced on display at a VFW in rural New York. It was purchased locally when the VFW went defunct and offered for sale as a “German one-man submarine” on Shotgun News in 1983. I knew that the German’s didn’t have a one-man sub and purchased it. The reason for the confusion was that the air cylinders in the boat were stamped with the Luftwaffe eagle. The reason for this, and the key to identifying the boat, was that the UK didn’t have the capability to produce non-ferous air cylinders early in the war, which were necessary because they were just below the boat’s compass. Ironically, however, crashed Heinkel bombers in the UK carried two non-ferous cylinders at the navigator’s seat and were machined for the British SAE standard thread. They were scavenged from the wrecking yard and pressed into use. After the purchase I pulled it by trailer back to my home at the time. Keith
 
Just a little added curiosity to the thread. Did you know that it was the want of ice axes from Fulpmes that caused REI to be founded?
https://www.rei.com/blog/camp/rei-history-it-started-with-an-ice-axe

https://criccafunding.com/tag/rei/
"The Anderson climbing group banded together, 23 strong, to purchase 23 Akadem Pickel Ice Axes – at a discount because Anderson bought in volume. Anderson then organized this collective group into what would become Recreational Equipment Inc., known as REI."

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/ANTIQUE-old-...873899?hash=item1c93bf53eb:g:c4UAAOSwd7xZrCDx
 
Square_peg said:
Just a little added curiosity to the thread. Did you know that it was the want of ice axes from Fulpmes that caused REI to be founded?...
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That's an interesting detail about those REI ice axes (back in the 1930s) being from Fulpmes. This was in Washington state, of course, where serious climbing in the high Cascades and Olympic mountain ranges required ice axes.

Looking further for an online example of an ice axe with the uncommon markings that match the famous murder weapon, the only one I found so far is an old auction listing for an ice axe that specifies "Garantie - Werkgen Fulpmes" in the item description (but the photos showing the stamp are gone). Interesting that the seller of this ice axe was also located in Washington state.


VINTAGE Wood Ice Axe Piolet - Werkgen Fulpmes Garantie 75cm
CAD $88.71 Buy It Now SOLD, CAD $42.22 Shipping
Location: Longbranch, Washington
Great vintage ice axe! Tons of character. Handle looks good. Metal has lots of surface rust. As photographed. Approx 75cm total length and 2lb 7oz. See photos for details. Thanks for looking! Condition: Used, Brand: Garantie - Werkgen Fulpmes
 
Steve Tall said:
...Looking further for an online example of an ice axe with the uncommon markings that match the famous murder weapon, the only one I found so far is an old auction listing for an ice axe that specifies "Garantie - Werkgen Fulpmes" in the item description (but the photos showing the stamp are gone). Interesting that the seller of this ice axe was also located in Washington state.


VINTAGE Wood Ice Axe Piolet - Werkgen Fulpmes Garantie 75cm
CAD $88.71 Buy It Now SOLD, CAD $42.22 Shipping
Location: Longbranch, Washington
Great vintage ice axe! Tons of character. Handle looks good. Metal has lots of surface rust. As photographed. Approx 75cm total length and 2lb 7oz. See photos for details. Thanks for looking! Condition: Used, Brand: Garantie - Werkgen Fulpmes
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Another example of a Werkgen Fulpmes ice axe with Garantie (not Garantirt, not Extra Garantie):

s-l1600.jpg

s-l1600.jpg


Eispickel antik Fulpmes
Ended: 18 Jan, 2015
Winning bid:EUR 30.50
Item location: Neuenmarkt, Germany
 
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