Sebbie sent in for warrenty.... a few issues

[trimcut123]

........................ for me anyway...
I just hope its fixed when it comes back......

 

[Slatts]

I wonder if the "issue" is with the way the CRs are heat treated? There are tons of S30v blades out there by other companies. They aren't all chipping.

If all S30V blades were chipping then S30V wouldn't be so popular.

There have been many reports of S30V chipping when it was first introduced, but I haven't heard any criticism directed at CRK's S30V. In my experience CR S30V is the best in the business for holding an edge and not chipping. Benchmade does a good job also with their S30V.

 

[ToyKnife]

CRK's S30V should be the best in the business they did have their hands in the creation with this steel. This is why myself and others find it extremely frustrating to have these problems. Plus, I'm betting there are more Benchmade S30V blades out there and being used then to CRK; I'm not hearing many reports with problems....well none.

Don't take it the wrong way...I'm most likely to pick up the new folder.

 

[Greg]

Re: chipping
I suspect that the extreme wear resistance of S30V can cause problems with fine edges and power sharpening. I'll bet they get too hot and affect the heat treatment on the very edge--maybe a mm or so. This may happen with worn belts, or just a bit of inattention at the critical time.
A re-profile and sharpen seems to be enough to stop the chipping on most blades.
Hope you get you problem sorted.
Greg

 

[trimcut123]

Thank you very much... Im sure my problem will be fixed.... Im also not at all concerned about the steel... I know it is great stuff.....
Matt

Re: chipping
I suspect that the extreme wear resistance of S30V can cause problems with fine edges and power sharpening. I'll bet they get too hot and affect the heat treatment on the very edge--maybe a mm or so. This may happen with worn belts, or just a bit of inattention at the critical time.
A re-profile and sharpen seems to be enough to stop the chipping on most blades.
Hope you get you problem sorted.
Greg

 

[tsiloics]

The chipping issue with S30V is kind of interesting.

All of my CRK's are folders; either BG or S30V. Have been EDC'ing a 'benza for about 8 years now.

Sharpening, using, steeling, sharpening the S30V, and then looking at it under the loupe, it appears that micro-chipping is the basic wear modality. I have blades that shave well, and yet still exhibit fine chipping at the edge. Both my BG and S30V 'benzas seem to have this characteristic.

Comparing these blades to INFI, the INFI seems to have more of a rolling wear modality.

Looking at my D2 blades, they seem to chip, but less.

My ATS blades seem to behave like BG.

The one Mad Dog I have (O1) seems to have less micro chipping than CRK's S30V. I've never really beaten on it, but what we're really talking about here is wear, not catastrophic failure.

All my Striders are either BG or ATS. It would be interesting to compare the wear characteristics of their S30V with CRK's, given that Bos does the Striders.

My basic take on all of this is that the CPM S30V is pretty similar to GB and ATS, although probably a little tougher and a little more brittle. It seems to work fine for an EDC folder.

INFI is probably a better balance of the tough/wear/edge-taking/edge-holding/corrosion resistance criteria.

Most well-prepped tool steels will take a better edge, but they lack corrosion resistance.

It will be interesting to see how the INFI on the BAD's (Rc 62) works out.

All things considered, it looks like CPM S30V is a very good choice for an EDC folder.

I am also very happy with my 'benzas as EDC knives.

My $.02.

 

[ToyKnife]

All my Striders are either BG or ATS. It would be interesting to compare the wear characteristics of their S30V with CRK's, given that Bos does the Striders.

I wonder what Bos does different, if anything.

 

[giant1]

I remember reading somewhere that an S30V edge will chip less if it is polished on something like a strop?

Maybe one of the more knowledgable members will confirm or deny this statement

 

[Andy_L]

more polished edges being more even tend to wear better. If you think about it the smaller the teeth there's less weak bits to break off

 

[Lycosa]

Sharpening IS a science, so to speak. There are definitely Do's and Don'ts, re: sharpening. An authority on the subject, should explain the procedure.

 

[mete]

It is possible to have a bad batch of steel, a HT problem, damage from grinding but with a Sebenza that will be rare. My large Sebenza sees all kinds of use but no abuse.Yesterday I cut open one of those #*%&#*@ heavy plastic wrap .Cardboard, pruning bushes ,fine copper wire etc, etc.Never chips. The only sharpening it has seen is freehand with a well used [very fine] diamond rod resulting in a fine microserration. ..Maybe I should run a home for abandoned Sebenzas !!

 

[tsiloics]

I conceptualize sharpening as a process of organization. One is organizing a series of particles into an increasingly tidy arrangement along the edge of a piece of metal. For a number of reasons, the particles tend to seek a state of disarray... or perhaps it would be better to say an alternate arrangement. No need to get overly philosophical.

Anyhow, all sharpened edges look like mountain ranges under relatively light magnification. It's pretty interesting to view them at that scale, and compare that level of visual data with the visual data one gets from the naked eye, and from use of the blade.

As I said, all edges seek an alternate to the 'sharpened' arrangement. Whether it be from corrosion, abrasion, impact... whatever. These forces might be extremely subtle (light saline humidity) or they might be dramatic enough to cause catastrophic failure of the blade. In all cases, they are present and effective, though.

My interest in this discussion is not so much focused on whether or not deterioration occurs (it always does) or even the extent to which it occurs with any given combination of steel, heat treat, geometry, use, etc. I'm looking more at how it occurs. For example, an edge that deteriorates by rolling tends to be easier to maintain in the field than one that wears by chipping. All you need to do is realign the former, whereas the latter needs to have material removed to restore a given level of sharpness. It might be that the chip-prone edge holds up much longer though, and it also might be that that it will accept a finer degree of sharpness than the roller.

When we put these issues (literally) under the microscope, we see that there is no magic solution. As with all design decisions, it's a matter of compromise. A matter of associating effective materials and configurations with a given problem.

 

[tsiloics]

I wonder what Bos does different, if anything.

Well, I'm sure he does something differently; if for no other reason than that he's a different person working in a different environment.

I'm not suggesting that I think Paul's approach might be superior to Chris', just saying that having two different sources of a similar process allows one to draw more conclusions about the material. If Chris were the only one using S30V, our understanding of it would be limited to his products.

I know very little about metallurgy beyond what I can infer as a knife user. It's interesting to me though, that Strider chooses S30V for its production work. Based on my small experience, it seems like S30V's strengths and weaknesses lend themselves more to medium use folders than hard use fixed blades. Surely Strider must have done substantial investigation before proceeding with the S30V.

CRK chose to use the S30V in only some of its heavy use knives. The others remained A2. I'd be interested to know what the thinking was there. Not that I have doubts, just genuinely interested in the rationale. Some sort of coated A2 seems like a very meat-and-potatoes approach to a hard-use fixed blade, and yet we see a pretty big shift in the direction of S30V... and I guess CPM in general. There's got to be a substantial amount of thought behind that.

 

[Andy_L]

we see a pretty big shift in the direction of S30V... and I guess CPM in general. There's got to be a substantial amount of thought behind that.

It could be down to market forces. Buyer hears S30V is better then what was before so high end companies switch to keep the trend going.

From the Strider knives I've seen I would think they make up for any weakness in the steel by having a lot of it there.

 

[tsiloics]

From the Strider knives I've seen I would think they make up for any weakness in the steel by having a lot of it there.

Yeah, and that is a very interesting issue to me. That's been my beef with Busse for the past ten years. You have the closest thing we've seen to the 'uber steel'. It balances impact/wear/stain/maintenance/sharpness better than anything else. It would seem that would allow a guy to actually design a thinner blade. A blade with superior cutting geometry *and* superior impact resistance. And yet there's this proliferation of 4,5,6" sharpened railroad spikes.

I'm not saying they should get out of the big, fat knife business. I love those knives. It does seem like a big chunk of INFI's potential was left on the table, as it were, though. Not to go O/T here... just that I think the INFI thing is a great example. Now we have the BAD, so great. Enough said.

My conclusion with the smaller Strider knives is that they just want that sort of geometry in the blade. For and EDC/outdoor knife, it really does not make a great deal of sense to have something that's 3.5" long and .25" thick. That's just sort of silly. I guess it's not so silly for an LEO/military backup knife, though... or presumably the designs would have gotten thinner. Not Dozier/Krein thin, but something in between.

So, maybe this is a case of blade geometry trumping metallurgy. Maybe the thinking was that (lack of) toughness of material would be naturally compensated for by toughness of geometry. That might be valid if the knife were going to be subjected to potentially catastrophic forces. Forces that would snap the blade, as opposed to chipping the cutting edge.

I guess for some military applications, 'cutting', in the traditional sense, becomes a secondary concern. The knife is likely to be used as a hammer, pry bar, impact weapon, etc.

For a general EDC knife though, I don't think those criteria are so valid. The fact that you *might* want to do something with a given tool does not trump the fact that you *will* need to do something... like cut cardboard, flesh, wood, etc. It's a narrower scope of use criteria, and a more controlled environment. I mean, you wouldn't design a framing hammer with a built-in axe blade, 'just in case' the carpenter had to do a little chopping. Even if that might prove useful .01% of the time. The overwhelming majority of the time, the axe blade would be a large liability. This is just basic design logic.

 

[alpine0000]

Thanks for the constructive criticism guys.....

speaking of constructive criticism... have you ever stepped back and taken a look at any single one of the MANY posts youve made on this forum? i cant even concentrate on what you're posts are saying anymore because of the extreme over-use of ellipsis in EVERY one of your posts after EVERY sentence. try replacing 99% of those ellipses with periods. its just as annoying as people who put 30 question marks or exclamation points after a sentence instead of 1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


</rant>

 

[trimcut123]

speaking of constructive criticism... have you ever stepped back and taken a look at any single one of the MANY posts youve made on this forum? i cant even concentrate on what you're posts are saying anymore because of the extreme over-use of ellipsis in EVERY one of your posts after EVERY sentence. try replacing 99% of those ellipses with periods. its just as annoying as people who put 30 question marks or exclamation points after a sentence instead of 1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


</rant>

That is hilarious....
Although your post has nothing to do with MY KNIFE.
That is still hilarious... and it is a habit that will never die........
I type like i think....
Lol...
Later bud

 

[Slatts]

speaking of constructive criticism... have you ever stepped back and taken a look at any single one of the MANY posts youve made on this forum? i cant even concentrate on what you're posts are saying anymore because of the extreme over-use of ellipsis in EVERY one of your posts after EVERY sentence. try replacing 99% of those ellipses with periods. its just as annoying as people who put 30 question marks or exclamation points after a sentence instead of 1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


</rant>

Frasier? Frasier Crane? Is that you?

Since we're on the topic of punctuation, let's break down your post a little bit:

youve made should be you've made
you're posts should be your posts
over-use should be overused or overly used
ellipses should be ellipsis (you got it right once but screwed the pooch on the other one. I never would have picked it up had you been consistently wrong)
its should be it's or it is
Then there are the missed capitalizations at the beginning of sentences, but no reason to go on.

Have a great day!

 

[trimcut123]

Frasier? Frasier Crane? Is that you?

Since we're on the topic of punctuation, let's break down your post a little bit:

youve made should be you've made
you're posts should be your posts
over-use should be overused or overly used
ellipses should be ellipsis (you got it right once but screwed the pooch on the other one. I never would have picked it up had you been consistently wrong)
its should be it's or it is
Then there are the missed capitalizations at the beginning of sentences, but no reason to go on.

Have a great day!

 

[mchenrytl]

You guys are too funny. I'm sure CRK will make it right with your knife. I've had my Sebbie for 3 years and no chipping that I can detect yet so that's interesting.

In my opinion CRK and Paul Bos are both the best in the business when it comes to heat treat. There are several custom makers that use CRK for their heat treat since they have it down to a science and have invested in the right equipment.

Don't get me wrong I would love for CRK to try different steels from time to time just to mix things up and give me a reason to buy more Sebenzas. ZDP-189, CPM 154, CPM S90V or Stellite 6K would all get my ears perked up or even plain ATS-34 and BG-42 which are still "classics"

The reason for the difference in steels between the one-piece range and say the Sebbie in your pocket is A-2 is not stainless (even less so then D-2). So for a hard use knife with a coating it's not a big deal, but for your pocketknife it could be.

-Troy