Sebenza 21 Large or 25? Which would you get?

pjandyho

pjandyho

Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
673
Hi guys,

New knife nut here. Just gotten this fever about a couple of months ago and recently received my Hinderer XM-18 from Knife Center. I wasn't very impressed with the built of the XM-18 honestly.

Since I frequently hear about the great reputation of Chris Reeve Knives, I am starting to wonder what are the differences between some models like the 21 large and 25?

Are there any design or built differences between them?
 
There are three main differences:
1: the 21 has a pivot bushing and the 25 does not.
2: the 25 has a ceramic ball bearing lock/blade interface whereas the 21 is traditional Titanium on steel.
3: the 25 has a blade grind that is supposed to slice better and slightly thicker steel.

2 and 3 are generally considered points in favor of the 25, bit number 1 is a huuuuuuge point in favor of the 21.

That bushing takes an incredible amount of precision and insanely tight tolerances to pull off and makes it very easy to reassemble the knife after maintenance.

In my opinion the 21 is the perfection of the design and the 25 is just a separate knife, more similar to the umnumzaan.
There's a lot more to say but I'll let others say it.
 
The 25 has a larger pivot, instead of the the pivot bushing.
I'd say start with the large 21.
This is how it all started.
 
justsomedude said:
There are three main differences:
1: the 21 has a pivot bushing and the 25 does not.
2: the 25 has a ceramic ball bearing lock/blade interface whereas the 21 is traditional Titanium on steel.
3: the 25 has a blade grind that is supposed to slice better and slightly thicker steel.

2 and 3 are generally considered points in favor of the 25, bit number 1 is a huuuuuuge point in favor of the 21.

That bushing takes an incredible amount of precision and insanely tight tolerances to pull off and makes it very easy to reassemble the knife after maintenance.

In my opinion the 21 is the perfection of the design and the 25 is just a separate knife, more similar to the umnumzaan.
There's a lot more to say but I'll let others say it.
Click to expand...

Pretty much nailed it, although I'd say the 25's high large hollow grind (which looks darned near flat) isn't necessarily a better slicer. I think the grip shape, lack of location hole and ceramic ball lock interface of the 25 are solid improvements. The pivot's adjust-ability can be sold as a benefit, but IMHO it is definitely also a production cost saver as compared the the hand fitting of a bushing pivot. The older hollow grind is also arguably more difficult to produce and should be superior after a lot of wear and sharpening, as the 25's grind begins to thicken much quicker than the 21's (and earlier).

I'd recommend starting with a 21.

My dream CRK (Large Mnandi notwithstanding) would be a Regular shaped blade (and old hollow grind), Inkosi type ceramic ball lock interface (with lockup groove), 25 style handle with Inkosi style upturned pocketclip and angled lock cut, and round stop pin.
 
I agree ^ I think the 21 is a better slicer IMHO but the 25 should be stronger.

Personally I'd like a 21 with ceramic ball on the lock face. Not sure why CRK sees the 25 pivot as the next step from the 21 (cheaper to produce?).
 
Thank you guys. From what I am gathering they both have their pros and cons and I should not be wrong with either right? In terms of feel, does using a pivot versus pivot bushing provide any difference in feel? Can one actually feel the difference when flipping the knife?
 
dubya3 said:
I agree ^ I think the 21 is a better slicer IMHO but the 25 should be stronger.

Personally I'd like a 21 with ceramic ball on the lock face. Not sure why CRK sees the 25 pivot as the next step from the 21 (cheaper to produce?).
Click to expand...

I doubt that's the sole reason, but a point in the 25's favor.

pjandyho said:
Thank you guys. From what I am gathering they both have their pros and cons and I should not be wrong with either right? In terms of feel, does using a pivot versus pivot bushing provide any difference in feel? Can one actually feel the difference when flipping the knife?
Click to expand...

The 25 can be "tuned" to user preference, so that's pretty much up to you. FWIW, Mr. Reeve is not a fan of "flipping" but a CRK most definitely can take it.

Twinsdad said:
I'm in the minority but I like my 25's more the 21
Click to expand...

Overall I do too, but that doesn't mean I would love a 25 with a pivot bushing and round stop pin.
 
Just said it in another post, but will re-iterate here: After spending many OCD hours adjusting pivots and applying locktite, the ability to just screw everything down tight on a 21 and have it work perfectly, every time was a revelation. I see it as the perfect system and wish all my knives worked the same way. The only reason I'd got with a 25 was if I really planned on hard use where the thicker blade stock would be a benefit.
 
jleephoto said:
Just said it in another post, but will re-iterate here: After spending many OCD hours adjusting pivots and applying locktite, the ability to just screw everything down tight on a 21 and have it work perfectly, every time was a revelation. I see it as the perfect system and wish all my knives worked the same way. The only reason I'd got with a 25 was if I really planned on hard use where the thicker blade stock would be a benefit.
Click to expand...

Pretty much agree, but again, I do like the ceramic ball lock interface - should last pretty much forever. Makes the blade the only wear-n-tear part, and that will last a LONG time in realistic knife use. Again, gimme' a 25 with the old hollow grind (Regular profile please), bushing pivot, and round blade stop pin and I'd be set for life.
 
The 21 handles are also slightly wider, top to bottom, than the 25.

With that being said, I wish CRK would make a 25 Insingo!
 
I carried a large 21 for a year. It was excellent, however it never really spoke to me so I eventually sold it. A few years later I picked up a 25 with micarta inlays and I like it a lot more. I like the blade shape and grind better. It feels better in hand and I think the ceramic ball Iock interface adds greater longevity to the lock. I do not miss the pivot bushing at all.
 
As said, both have their good points. If you can afford it, purchase both. Good used prices on BF exchange. I alternate carrying them, and since each one will last forever, I'm double covered...:-)
 
Twinsdad said:
It could be in my head but the 25 feels more substantial but they are pretty much the same size
Click to expand...

I feel the same way as you. I know they aren't that different on paper, if at all, but the 25 feels more substantial to me as well. I actually prefer the 21 because of this. I also prefer the thinner blade stock of the 21.
 
I have an Umnumzaan and a 21. I have really been loving the 21. It is very smooth and minimalist. The Umnumzaan is kind of like the 25. The detent is kind of hard to overcome. the lock bar takes some training to get used too. For a first CRK id go for the 21. My .02cents
 
I have only ever owned the 21 style sebenza. Although I have almost pulled the trigger on a 25, I just can't get past the no pivot bushing setup.

The 21 is so refined and easily assembled/disassembled that it's hard to look elsewhere.
 
Personally I like the 21 better than the 25. Beyond that though, as has been stated already, the 21 is a simpler knife and and CRK's mainstay. I recommend a large (or small) 21 for your first CRK...

(I also prefer the Zaan to the 25 for whatever that is worth.)
 
Thank you everyone! Very much appreciated the comments. I am seeing that there are more love to the 21 than the 25. I am gravitating towards the 21 now, large or small. I kind of like the pivot bushing idea.

So now, large or small 21?
 
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