Sebenza 25 lock up

Joined
May 26, 2009
Messages
867
hey guys looking for some thoughts here. over the years ive owned over a dozen different variations of sebbies so having a sebenza with a late lock up isnt new to me and honestly doesnt bother me at all. i just received my first 25 today and i love it, however the lock up is pretty late, late enough to make me a little concerned. the ceramic detent ball is literally the width of the washer from hitting the opposite side. at first it was a little earlier and now looks to have settled in where it currently sits. the tension on the lock bar feels abnormally strong for a sebenza. should i be worried? i was thinking about adjusting the tension on the lock bar and seeing if the lock up will sit earlier. what do you guys think?
 
I think that you should never, ever mess with the tension on the lock bar.

That is the EXACT reason why there is a LBS on the Umnumzaan now. People thought theirs was too stiff, so they would bend the lockbar out to make it easier to disengage, then wondering why they were having lock failures.


The ceramic ball lockface makes the lockup appear later than it is. The tension on my 25 feels stronger too, but I think some of that has to do with there being less surface to push off of with your thumb.
 
Adjusting the lock bar tension will void your warranty.
I really hope we don't ever see a lbs on the Sebenza...That would be a sad day indeed.

If it were me, I would just use the knife. And if the lock bar ever moves over far enough that it got blade play then Id send it in.

Theres really no sense sending it in right now if it still locks up solid. Id Wait and see if it ever turned into a problem first.
I'm guessing it won't. These locks tend to settle in a wee bit and then not move from there. At least that's my experience with them.
 
I think that you should never, ever mess with the tension on the lock bar.

That is the EXACT reason why there is a LBS on the Umnumzaan now. People thought theirs was too stiff, so they would bend the lockbar out to make it easier to disengage, then wondering why they were having lock failures.


The ceramic ball lockface makes the lockup appear later than it is. The tension on my 25 feels stronger too, but I think some of that has to do with there being less surface to push off of with your thumb.

Adjusting the lock bar tension will void your warranty.
I really hope we don't ever see a lbs on the Sebenza...That would be a sad day indeed.

If it were me, I would just use the knife. And if the lock bar ever moves over far enough that it got blade play then Id send it in.

Theres really no sense sending it in right now if it still locks up solid. Id Wait and see if it ever turned into a problem first.
I'm guessing it won't. These locks tend to settle in a wee bit and then not move from there. At least that's my experience with them.

Both you guys hit it right on the head. The ceramic ball will always look like it seats later. I have yet to have the sebenza 25, but have owned several umnumzaan's which have the same lockup as the new sebenza 25 and this is the way they work. Even though similar, its a lot different than the traditional sebenza lockbar lockup. And if you have had an umnumzaan, you will notice that the lockbar is indeed stiffer on the zaan than the sebenza.

As the others have stated, Never Ever try to adjust the lockbar on any CRK. You will immediately Void the Warranty, and Believe me, they will know when you send it in. This was the sole reason the LBS was added to the zaan because of so many so called experts thinking they knew more than Chris about the design.

I have had the honor of talking to Mr. Reeve on the phone and he spent about 20-30 minutes explaining how the lockbar works on both the sebenza and umnumzaan. So wish I could have scribed every word as he is Pure Genius.

Use the Sebenza 25 and enjoy it. If there is ever an issue, email them or call them, or send it in. Never try to DIY your Sebenza or Umnumzaan.
 
why and how does that work? magic?

It doesn't. It creates a slight bind on the knife's hardware. I tried it just to see what the hubbub was about, and the lockup returns to normal with a standard post-assembly wrist flick.
 
Adjusting the lockup is very simple. I tried it and it works.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw3TPYFOp_c

why and how does that work? magic? and does that void warranty? im guessing it does since you are changing the lockup.

Please note, that is the Sebenza 21. NOT THE 25.

It doesn't. It creates a slight bind on the knife's hardware. I tried it just to see what the hubbub was about, and the lockup returns to normal with a standard post-assembly wrist flick.

I found similar.

Well....

Lets get to the point:

The ceramic ball lockup is supposed to look late, but in in reality is not.

Some of you wanted to see macr shots of the Umnumzaan after seeing the Sebenza shots in my other thread and,well, with such awesome feedback how could I resist.
So in no particular order here they are....let me know what you think.
Also, I was shooting outside and as luck would have it it started to rain and so you may see a drop or two of water in some of the shots. Luckily it's all stainless!


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6162822332_ea003906aa_b.jpg

Added a little canned air to the perforated washer while trying to combat the rain drops and inadvertantly created a 'spinner'.

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6156733955_6cd25776ff_b.jpg



6156732243_d6e8e862be_b.jpg



6156733521_e2a3545831_b.jpg



6156730675_20d74e0700_b.jpg



6156733129_85551d5fc5_b.jpg



6157273728_5b3cfd4dc5_b.jpg

"Those who have followed the nearly 25 years that the Sebenza has been around know we continually make small improvements, alterations, advances to our knives. None of these changes are made to follow a trend, to keep up with the Jones or to tick off our customers. They are done to improve performance, safety or production. That we make a change to the Umnumzaan should not come as a surprise.

The disc has been added to the Umnumzaan to prevent the reduction of tension on the lock. Because the shape of the Umnumzaan handle is a little different than that of the Sebenza, it takes a different technique to open and close. We have found some customers are not willing to learn the difference or perhaps they don’t recognize the difference but, whatever the reason, they think it is necessary to modify the lock tension, thinking the knife will open more easily. This simply makes the knife unsafe. We have had several Umnumzaans returned to us because of lock issues – almost always the customer denies having modified the lock. We can see what has been done, and are put between a rock and a hard place as we don’t want to call out the customer for not telling the truth. The disc is a solution to prevent potentially unsafe modifications.

Please note this disc is not a lock stabilizer as it has been called in some posts. It is simply in place to prevent the lock bar from being pushed out to reduce tension. Our locks are fitted properly to very close tolerances and do not need to be stabilized. And to save further speculation, the disc is press fit into the handle. It is made of 303 stainless steel, and is sandblasted along with the rest of the handle. Because it is not titanium, the sandblasted finish looks different.

Will it change further? Quite possibly. What might these changes be? No idea at this time.

It will be a while before you see Umnumzaans other than the Wilson Startac with this disc. This has to do with our on-hand inventory of machined handles.

We are not planning to add the lock override protection disc to the Sebenza. We do not have the issue of lock modification by customers to the same degree as we do with the Umnumzaan.

Before the question is asked here is a quick reminder of the difference in how to open an Umnumzaan and a Sebenza.
Umnumzaan: slide your thumb straight forward, parallel with the handle, pushing the lug with the top center of your thumb.
Sebenza: push the lug out sideways in a sweeping motion with the side of your thumb.

Since there has been renewed discussion about Idaho Made in this thread, you might find it interesting to note that since March this year, the value of our back orders has almost quadrupled. This would indicate there are not too many concerns about the Idaho Made marking.

We appreciate your loyalty and enthusiastic conversation. We know we can't please all of the people all of the time!

Anne"

You will find that as you use the knife it will get easier to work with.The lock is designed like that so that if using under a stressfull situation with gloved hand the lock is not accidentally overcome,with use it will become second nature to you. Push down and out.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...y-Umnumzaan!-Lock-Bar-Question?highlight=lock

further searches:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/701337-Umnumzaan-quot-lock-up-question

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...tion-for-those-who-carry-and-use-an-umnumzaan

And then the cherry on the cake from the thread: Some Words from Chris http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/730951-Some-words-from-Chris......


"The lock should engage at between 50% and 75% of travel. With the Umnumzaan, because the interface between the blade and the lock bar is a ceramic ball, it is the ball that must be at 50 – 75%. This will give the visual that the lock bar is further over than with a Sebenza."

I have yet to hear of a single lock with the ceramic ball interface that gives any problems. Since the release of the Umnumzaan, despite people complaints of it being "late" no one has had one wear out, disengage or develop any "sticky" lock. There has been only reports of people overextending the lock resulting in problems and from there the CR over extension tab/disc or whatever was applied.

So, in short. Dont mess with what works and use it.
 
Great pics, those were great:thumbup: Back to the op's question about the 25 lockup. My 25 is very similar to yours and I'm sure it's supposed to have a strong lockup. My 25 locks up at about 70% I'd guess, I thought it was pretty late at first, but it hasn't moved anymore and it likely never will. Do the marks on your tang go almost all the way over? If I had to guess I'd say your 25 is fine but you could always send it in for conformation if it keeps bugging you.
 
I'll post a few pics later today. From the marks on the tang it looks like the ceramic ball sits at 75-80%.
 
That should be fine:thumbup:, yours is probably similar to mine(70-80%), as long as it doesn't travel over to the other side, or have play I'd call it good. Even if it did travel over say in 30-40 yrs or so:D send it in, but by that time you'll be using a Sebenza 65 :eek: Mine def feels like it's the most solid folding knife I own by the way!!
 
Please note, that is the Sebenza 21. NOT THE 25.



I found similar.

Well....

Lets get to the point:

The ceramic ball lockup is supposed to look late, but in in reality is not.



"Those who have followed the nearly 25 years that the Sebenza has been around know we continually make small improvements, alterations, advances to our knives. None of these changes are made to follow a trend, to keep up with the Jones or to tick off our customers. They are done to improve performance, safety or production. That we make a change to the Umnumzaan should not come as a surprise.

The disc has been added to the Umnumzaan to prevent the reduction of tension on the lock. Because the shape of the Umnumzaan handle is a little different than that of the Sebenza, it takes a different technique to open and close. We have found some customers are not willing to learn the difference or perhaps they don’t recognize the difference but, whatever the reason, they think it is necessary to modify the lock tension, thinking the knife will open more easily. This simply makes the knife unsafe. We have had several Umnumzaans returned to us because of lock issues – almost always the customer denies having modified the lock. We can see what has been done, and are put between a rock and a hard place as we don’t want to call out the customer for not telling the truth. The disc is a solution to prevent potentially unsafe modifications.

Please note this disc is not a lock stabilizer as it has been called in some posts. It is simply in place to prevent the lock bar from being pushed out to reduce tension. Our locks are fitted properly to very close tolerances and do not need to be stabilized. And to save further speculation, the disc is press fit into the handle. It is made of 303 stainless steel, and is sandblasted along with the rest of the handle. Because it is not titanium, the sandblasted finish looks different.

Will it change further? Quite possibly. What might these changes be? No idea at this time.

It will be a while before you see Umnumzaans other than the Wilson Startac with this disc. This has to do with our on-hand inventory of machined handles.

We are not planning to add the lock override protection disc to the Sebenza. We do not have the issue of lock modification by customers to the same degree as we do with the Umnumzaan.

Before the question is asked here is a quick reminder of the difference in how to open an Umnumzaan and a Sebenza.
Umnumzaan: slide your thumb straight forward, parallel with the handle, pushing the lug with the top center of your thumb.
Sebenza: push the lug out sideways in a sweeping motion with the side of your thumb.

Since there has been renewed discussion about Idaho Made in this thread, you might find it interesting to note that since March this year, the value of our back orders has almost quadrupled. This would indicate there are not too many concerns about the Idaho Made marking.

We appreciate your loyalty and enthusiastic conversation. We know we can't please all of the people all of the time!

Anne"


http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...y-Umnumzaan!-Lock-Bar-Question?highlight=lock

further searches:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/701337-Umnumzaan-quot-lock-up-question

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...tion-for-those-who-carry-and-use-an-umnumzaan

And then the cherry on the cake from the thread: Some Words from Chris http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/730951-Some-words-from-Chris......


"The lock should engage at between 50% and 75% of travel. With the Umnumzaan, because the interface between the blade and the lock bar is a ceramic ball, it is the ball that must be at 50 – 75%. This will give the visual that the lock bar is further over than with a Sebenza."

I have yet to hear of a single lock with the ceramic ball interface that gives any problems. Since the release of the Umnumzaan, despite people complaints of it being "late" no one has had one wear out, disengage or develop any "sticky" lock. There has been only reports of people overextending the lock resulting in problems and from there the CR over extension tab/disc or whatever was applied.

So, in short. Dont mess with what works and use it.

Marthinus, You Put A Lot Of Time And Effort Into That Post. Many Thanks And A Job Very Well Done Indeed...!!!
 
The lock up appears very late on my 25 as well but the ball sits around 60%, I'm not worried in the least about it as I carried my umnum for more than two years and the very late lock up on it never changed.
That's not to say that I didn't have the exact concern about my umnumzaan as you do your 25 when I first bought it. I called crk to ask them about it and about a blemish on my blade, they asked me to send it in after I told them that the lock bar was almost touching the other side.
I promptly sent it in and they called me back just as promptly. While speaking to them they told me the blemish was from the stone wash and fell completely within spec, I told them that I was unhappy with it's appearance and they made me a new blade-no bs or arguing necessary, just made me a new tanto which was a limited run at the time-, then they told me that the lock up was within spec and not to worry about it.
When the knife came back to ne the lock up was just a little better thanks to the new blade ( thank you crk fir dealing with my OCD ), I used that knife hard every chance I could ipuntil the 25 finally booted it from my pocket.

This is just my singular experience, I love their product but I'm not a fanboy, I do recommend their knives to others at every chance I get, not because I'm trying to justify the expense or seem cool, but because they've never failed me and my experience with their customer service has been very good!
Take my free advice for what it's worth, nothing, but I'll give it anyway. Use it, love it! If it really bugs you, give them a call. If you don't get the answer you want then sell it and buy another one.

Have a great night, enjoy that sweet blade.
 
Well, a new 25 just arrived today thanks to another stand up BF member who was kind enough to let one or to go. I can't really say too much right now as still in the shocker phase. :D Yet, oh holy cow, this knife gives the Ti-lock a run for its money (Ti-lock being my fav CRK masterpiece). Everything is so well thought out and so well executed that all my initial negative pessimism toward the knife as gone out the window........YES, the handle is more ergonomic, YES, the blade is better looking and oh so hair-popping sharp, YES the action is smooth and the detent and lockup feel like a well oiled machine built to run, and YES, it does seem to be more ballsie than the 21. =)

The lockup is about 65-70% on mine as well and incidentally, was the same on my brand new Large Starbena 21. I was a little concerned on the 21 being brand new and having that late of a lockup until I contacted CRK. The informed me it is perfectly fine and quite solid. From what I am hearing so far about the new ceramic ball lockups on these folders it makes me even less worried about the 25.

I would say go ahead and use it, enjoy it, and be stoked you are one of the few to own potentially one of the first knives in a line amongst others to change the way high end folders are made in the knife industry. All hail ceramic ball! :D
 
25 normal lockup looks about 80% but really where the ball touches is around 60-70%
photo_zpsf209f17d.jpg

photo_zps63efecb9.jpg
 
It doesn't. It creates a slight bind on the knife's hardware. I tried it just to see what the hubbub was about, and the lockup returns to normal with a standard post-assembly wrist flick.

Not on any of the knives I've done it on. Perhaps you did it wrong?
 
Attached is a pic of my 25 Proto lock up side by side with one of the first 25 production models. Both sit way deeper than any 21 I have owned. I have had this proto since late July 2012 and have had no problems with it and use it almost daily. So fear not; the deep lock up won't be a problem. 2012-12-05_21-21-45_548.jpg
 
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