Sebenza Edge Retention

K

Krissig12

Joined
Sep 11, 2013
Messages
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Hey guys. I started a thread a while back about how I was looking to buy my first small 21, and now I'm finally about pull the trigger on it. My only question now is: what can I expect the edge retention to be like?

I've seen a couple rope cutting tests. It seems like the edge retention isn't all that impressive and there's lots of rolling and such.

Im aware that CR runs his s35 at 58-59 to give it better toughness and make it easier to sharpen, but I'm just curious as to EXACTLY how much of an effect this will have on edge retention. It's not a big deal to me if it doesn't have the BEST edge retention, as I realize that the sebenza is more about the overall package. But it would still be comforting to know that I'll still be able to do a decent amount of work in between sharpenings.

Don't mistake this for some kind of troll thread. I don't mean to attack CR in any way. I am simply curious as to what I can honestly expect.
 
I personally have never had any problems with edge retention on my CRKs. I hit the edge with a well used blue DMT stone and just strop to clean it up when needed. That gives me a bit of a toothy cutting edge but that lasts for plenty long enough in my experience. That edge will still shave hair and slice paper but it's not the push cutting demon of an atom splitting edge some people like.

The edge you put on your knife has alot to do with how it performs, I know that sounds obvious, but when I see people moaning about edge retention they usually have a fine mirror polished edge that will of course degrade faster than a rougher edge. I see no point in an edge like that as for me it does go rather quickly and that can be said for many steel alloys from many companies. There is a good carbide field in S30V and S35Vn and carbides are what do the cutting at the end of the day. :):thumbup:
 
When I had my large 21, I used that thing like if I had no other knife available. It skinned animals, it prepared dinner, it wittled wood, and it had its fair share of cardboard. Not once did it dissapoint me. It held its edge as I'd expect s35vn to perform. Excellent to say the least.
What really got me was when I push cut through bones on a squirrel that I was skinning, the edge had no damage. I was pleasantly surprised. (:

I've had steels in m390, s90v, and s110v.
Compared to those, yeah, I could see where people could be wanting more out of s35vn or even s30v. But l am fairly certain that you won't be dissapointed.
 
bb6tuner said:
When I had my large 21, I used that thing like if I had no other knife available. It skinned animals, it prepared dinner, it wittled wood, and it had its fair share of cardboard. Not once did it dissapoint me. It held its edge as I'd expect s35vn to perform. Excellent to say the least.
What really got me was when I push cut through bones on a squirrel that I was skinning, the edge had no damage. I was pleasantly surprised. (:

I've had steels in m390, s90v, and s110v.
Compared to those, yeah, I could see where people could be wanting more out of s35vn or even s30v. But l am fairly certain that you won't be dissapointed.
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This, exactly ^


I use mine everyday like I would any knife, it doesn't get babied at all. It performs every task from field dressing white tail to prepping dinner, whittling, and breaking down the recycling without hesitation. It's by no means the best whittler but it excels at everything else- could be the edge I put on it. I'm not one to put a crazy mirrored edge on a knife either, I don't have the tools or desire to do so, nor do I know how. I keep a nice working edge on my CRK's and they hold that edge for as long as I'd expect most any knife too, they touch up very quickly being stropped on an ultra fine ceramic rod- maybe 30 seconds to a minutes work once a month just because I do like a sharp knife.
 
I have never had any issues with mine. I did a brief, admittedly not scientific or absolutely conclusive test with my small 21 and Spyderco S35VN and S30V cutting cardboard and they were not distinguishably different. I know there are others who have other opinions but that is my experience.
 
Big thanks to everyone who took the time to type out full and detailed responses. You guys in the CRK forum are a great bunch:thumbup:

I guess I've got nothing to worry about! The edge retention should be fine, and whatever issues CR had when he first started using s35 have since been resolved.
 
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Haze said:
I personally have never had any problems with edge retention on my CRKs. I hit the edge with a well used blue DMT stone and just strop to clean it up when needed. That gives me a bit of a toothy cutting edge but that lasts for plenty long enough in my experience. That edge will still shave hair and slice paper but it's not the push cutting demon of an atom splitting edge some people like.

The edge you put on your knife has alot to do with how it performs, I know that sounds obvious, but when I see people moaning about edge retention they usually have a fine mirror polished edge that will of course degrade faster than a rougher edge. I see no point in an edge like that as for me it does go rather quickly and that can be said for many steel alloys from many companies. There is a good carbide field in S30V and S35Vn and carbides are what do the cutting at the end of the day. :):thumbup:
Click to expand...

Excellent advice on how to finish the edge. I think I'm often guilty of over polishing:o


Now the wait begins! I'm about to put in an order for the cf inlay small 21 from Bladehq. They were still in stock last time I checked ....
 
I prefer coarser toothy edge in my CRK in S35VN.I have experimented and found around 600 grit to be where I like to stop on the diamonds.I finish off with a strop.Nice toothy edge seems to be my choice with S35VN.
best,
salmonkiller
 
I've seen very strange behavior of S35VN on at least latest CRK knives (2012-2014). And honestly I'm very confused after many tests. There is something wrong with the steel. It's not about the hardness, it's about the structure. You can see it here for instance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwKbAtuRUAg#t=482. It's 10x worse than old ones with BG42 or even S30V. I'm completely disappointed with performance. For instance the performance of Umnumzaan was worse than any knife in S35VN steel (Spyderco, BM, etc.). It has been compared even with chinese copies and they perform better than original CRK (you can find the corresponding graphs here http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p486/Exo-oxE/Test S35VN by Exibiche/TestS35VN5mm_zpsf7d7c096.jpg).
 
I don't speak a lick of Russian but what does that guy think he's looking at and say the problem is ? I know what I think I'm looking at and think the problem is but I don't think it's the same. :p
 
Yep,..I am confused to..Some edge captures at high magnification,. Some finger waving. Not exactly sure what's going on
 
Pffft, call that high magnification ? :rolleyes: This pic will give him high magnification envy for sure. :D.....

attachment.php
 
My experiences with the 25 are positive. Best part about it is how easy it is to touch up.
 
It doesn't matter what the guy is saying in the vid actually. It's about what you'll see looking at the edge of the Seb. At the same magnification any other edge will be straight. The same is observed after any test (rope, cord, the result is the same). It's not even rolling it's wearing down and if you compare to any other S35VN it's not expected behaviour. So besides "CRK is perfect and i like it" there is a serious problem proved by a lot of test but not many people here ready to admit it.
 
That is a bit of a "take my word for it" response. What was the testing situation, does he understand the difference between carbon steel and high alloy steels ? I have many more questions that I'm sure would be answerd if I knew what he was saying in the vid. :)

donderom said:
It doesn't matter what the guy is saying in the vid actually. It's about what you'll see looking at the edge of the Seb. At the same magnification any other edge will be straight. The same is observed after any test (rope, cord, the result is the same). It's not even rolling it's wearing down and if you compare to any other S35VN it's not expected behaviour. So besides "CRK is perfect and i like it" there is a serious problem proved by a lot of test but not many people here ready to admit it.
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You also said your problem was with S35VN as a material now it seems to be CRK you have a problem with. Saying things this is not very helpful and is somewhat telling perhaps. We all know full well CRK aren't perfect, not one single person or company is.

donderom said:
So besides "CRK is perfect and i like it" there is a serious problem proved by a lot of test but not many people here ready to admit it.
Click to expand...
 
donderom said:
It doesn't matter what the guy is saying in the vid actually. It's about what you'll see looking at the edge of the Seb. At the same magnification any other edge will be straight. The same is observed after any test (rope, cord, the result is the same). It's not even rolling it's wearing down and if you compare to any other S35VN it's not expected behaviour. So besides "CRK is perfect and i like it" there is a serious problem proved by a lot of test but not many people here ready to admit it.
Click to expand...

So, if I am reading this right, what he is saying in the vid doesn't matter, but it's worth posting as it's somehow informative?
If the steel in CRK folders doesn't exhibit the same characteristics of other S35VN, then are you insinuating it's a 1) heat treat problem 2) a geometry problem 3) not S35VN?

Do you own a CRK or just coming to this particular subforum to inform the blind masses of this as you read it somewhere else? If you own one, what is YOUR experience with it?
It's good to have an intelligent discourse,..but at this point, unless there is substantial evidence,..I think you are trolling.
 
bhyde said:
So, if I am reading this right, what he is saying in the vid doesn't matter, but it's worth posting as it's somehow informative?
If the steel in CRK folders doesn't exhibit the same characteristics of other S35VN, then are you insinuating it's a 1) heat treat problem 2) a geometry problem 3) not S35VN?

Do you own a CRK or just coming to this particular subforum to inform the blind masses of this as you read it somewhere else? If you own one, what is YOUR experience with it?
It's good to have an intelligent discourse,..but at this point, unless there is substantial evidence,..I think you are trolling.
Click to expand...

I own(ed) a couple of CRK knives. Me and a friend of mine conducted some tests to investigate the problem i've been noticing with my Umnumzaan and Sebenza. I'm far from insinuating anything for sure, but 1) as for heat problem maybe but still not 100% sure, 2) definitely not the geometry and 3) I think it is S35VN (we contacted a lab with special equipment to test the steels from the many manufacturers so only chinese fakes are lying). To sum it up it's personal experience + pretty well thought tests using different materials and techniques + "scientific" analysis of steel. What I wanted to say is that it's just a little bit more than like/don't like approach. We've spent a lot of time trying to understand what's wrong with the steel (again S30V and BG42 is absolutely ok and performs reaaaaly well) and I'm still not 100% sure what it is. Just sharing my experience as the initial question was about edge retention and I have a lot of tests saying there is a problem with edge retention on the last runs of CRK knives with S35VN.
I'm not saying CRK is crap or anything like that, I'd be more than happy to know why the things how they are. Is it called trolling after all?
 
Well, that does it! I'm going to have to get a S35V model to test and enjoy;)

Any suggestions? I'm thinking insingo...

Truth is, I have honed a few and did some brief testing to confirm the stability. My limited research has never confirmed any of the CRK S35Vn "problems" lodged by various entities over the past couple years.
 
donderom said:
I own(ed) a couple of CRK knives. Me and a friend of mine conducted some tests to investigate the problem i've been noticing with my Umnumzaan and Sebenza. I'm far from insinuating anything for sure, but 1) as for heat problem maybe but still not 100% sure, 2) definitely not the geometry and 3) I think it is S35VN (we contacted a lab with special equipment to test the steels from the many manufacturers so only chinese fakes are lying). To sum it up it's personal experience + pretty well thought tests using different materials and techniques + "scientific" analysis of steel. What I wanted to say is that it's just a little bit more than like/don't like approach. We've spent a lot of time trying to understand what's wrong with the steel (again S30V and BG42 is absolutely ok and performs reaaaaly well) and I'm still not 100% sure what it is. Just sharing my experience as the initial question was about edge retention and I have a lot of tests saying there is a problem with edge retention on the last runs of CRK knives with S35VN.
I'm not saying CRK is crap or anything like that, I'd be more than happy to know why the things how they are. Is it called trolling after all?
Click to expand...

Good reply,..You have answered my question as to your intentions. Trolling? Yes,..It happens quite alot, so you can understand how your initial post would lead me to believe this as others have had all the hallmarks of a troll without any substantiation. If you truly are interested in knowing the "why" and not interested in just bashing,..then that is different.

One other question; Do you do this testing on other knives from other manufacturers and makers? If so, what is the intent and how do you get funding for this? Is it self funded to satisfy curiosity or?

I would be interested in the data for the testing and how it was accomplished.. Critical thinking and all,..I know some pretty smart people that happen to have Phd's attached to their names and have much, if not all the equipment to do said testing, so they could help me to verify this information. :)
 
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