Sebenza Lock strength

W

will22

Joined
May 13, 2002
Messages
472
I posted this in the Chris reeve forum and got no results so here goes.

Just out of curiosity does anyone know of any tests that show failure on the Sebbies frame lock. Like how other knife companies say our lock can hold 100 lbs before failure.

I just keep looking at my Sebbie and can't see it failing. Not with that huge slab of heat treated TI sitting there. I would also like to see what the difference in failure between when the knife is gripped and when the framelock has no reinforcement.

I would think that the Sebbie would bury other folders in this kind of test
 
Given the hype and what you paid for it, the sebenza should be at the top of the heap. But you'll never find out from CRK. Even though there is an industry standard testing machine, very few manufacturers admit to using it and fewer still will give you test results. Spyderco should be commended for using the machine and at least giving out some some test conclusions (e.g. cutting power of the new wonder steels.)
 
The Sebenza is hyped... and Spyderco isn't?

I would argue that just because you put a knife in a machine and stress it until it breaks, is hype by definition. The machine does not take into account any environmental variables, strike angles, quality control issues from piece to piece or any real world scenario's where lock stregth would really matter.

I would agree that it's nice to know in a given scenario a knife will hold up to a certain amount of pressure but it by no means comes even close to capturing every variable that could involve a folding knife closing.

If you make a folding knife based on a sound locking mechanism, make every one identical in terms of QC variants, and build them out of what are arguably the best materials available you will come up with a great knife.

The closest folder I have seen that matched the Sebenza in terms of perceived lock strength was the original Chinook. But the Chinook had two strikes against it that the Sebenza overcomes, the death grip scenario and the lower QC that produced slight variance from knife to knife.

Bottom line is that both are favorites of mine and I cannot see a single scenario in which I could reasonably make them fail.
 
Machine testing of a knife may not be perfect, but it is a useful test just the same, especially if the results are properly qualified.
 
It is basically a hunk of Titanium, albeit a beautiful one. :cool: I'd assume roight off it would be well over 100 pounds, does anyone know how the benchmade framelocks hold up, I'd assume it would be comparative.










J.K.
 
IMHO 100 LBS is way too little for a Sebenza. Strenghtwise i think the Sebenza falls into the MBC Spyderco category, meaning 200 LBS/ inch of blade. Spyderco does failure tests for other knife manufacturers but they are understandably a well kept secret. I say in loadbearing on the spine of a Large Sebenza u could easely reach 500 LBS before catastrophic failure. This is static load on the spine , not dynamic loads or lateral stress. meaning 500 LBS evenly spread over the whole spine of the blade , not on the tip of the blade. The Sebenza has the benefit that because of the tight tolerance there are less point where sheer force can act on points. The closr the tolerances the better the knife can withstand the force, because it will evenly distribute the weight over a larger bearing surface.
 
I am curious as to the results of the cutting power of the wonder steels too. One way or the other the sebbie's lock seems to be incredably strong. I would just like to hear some cases of faliure and what it took to make it happen.
 
The only thing I care about is, the lock strength on the Sebenza is strong enough that I'll never worry about it failing during my useage.
 
I remember a post from years and years ago, where somebody pounded on a Sebenza and a BM710. The blade was held in a vice or something, and the handle was pounded on with a baseball bat. The 710 never failed. The Seb finally failed after repeated beatings with the bat. At least that's what the post said.

Any folder that can hold up to those repeated beatings is good enough for me.
 
Well IMHO the Sebenza, due to its used materials, u will not be able to break the blade using your own human force, excluding leverage extenders and powertools! :D
 
If a Sebenza lock fails on you, I'm willing to bet you did something you really shouldn't have been using a folder for.

Lock strength is no substitute for common sense.

Paul
 
Standardized tests run by machines are the only way to compare knives and get any meaningful data. Currently spyderco is the only firm that even discusses their results. That's not spyderco hype, but honest marketing. They even break their product line done by strength. In the past, buck would give some information. I think spyderco should be commended for using standardized testing.

For example, with S30V, the great knife god reeves indicates that its a better steel, but didn't back it up with any facts. spydercos glesser did give information on its performance in the standardized tests compared to other steels. Which do you prefer, pronouncements from on high or test results?
 
I'll trust the results of real life knife users and personal experience long before I'll trust the results given by a machine.

Paul
 
I agree that you can and should trust real live knife users concerning the characteristics of ONE knife.

But if you want to COMPARE things like lock strength, cutting ability and corrosion resistance, then the ONLY reliable or scientific way to do that is by standardized tests.

The best way to standardize testing of physical materials is by the use of machines and industry consensus on the machines and tests.

Sooo when production knife companies don't use or don't publicize the results using the industry standardize tests...then all your getting from that company is unsupported, unscientific hype. Plus the suspicion inherent in the question "Why don't they use/publicize the results of standardized testing."

That's why when spyderco says steel X has a greater edge holding charactistic over steel Y, I believe them. If a firm who doesn't test or discuss test results says steel X is better than Y...it don't mean squat.
 
The Sebenza was tested by Spyderco, the results were discussed on the forums some time ago.

The lock strength of the Sebenza isn't however the real problem with integrals, or most locks in general, locks generally fail due to stability issues, not actual breakage.

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
The lock strength of the Sebenza isn't however the real problem with integrals, or most locks in general, locks generally fail due to stability issues, not actual breakage.

-Cliff
Click to expand...

Good point. Sometimes 'ya just need a fixed blade. ;)
 
Do you mean 100 in.lbs per inch? If true, then a 4 inch knife holds 400 in.lbs. This means one can put 400 lbs at the distance 1 inch from the main pin (lock) or 200 lbs at 2 inch, or a 100 lbs at the distance of 4 inch. For a given knife, a product: strength (in.lbs per inch) X lever (inch) is a constant (torque).
So if the answer is positive, then with a 100 in.lbs per inch Sebenza would belong to the 'heavy duty' folder according to Spyderco's definition. Well, I would expect somewhat more for Sebenza, something in the range 150+ in.lbs per inch.


Franco
 
Yup, that is the way Spyderco defines their lockstrength. The Chinook II has a lock strength of over 900 lbs. One inch from the pivot (actually not from the pivot but from the hilt, I think Spyderco uses 200 lbs per publishe blade length which is measured from the hilt).

As I assume that this topic got kind of started, because I said on the other forum that I think a Ti lock bar in a frame lock could buckle. I should clarify, that that was in response to a thread titled: "Strongest lock bar none". And IMHO a lock that is based on a a single pin without anvil under acompression force can not claim such a title. I saw the "strongest lock bar none" more of an academic question as obviously the execution of the lock is still the main factor. As Mr. Glesser pointed out a while back, you can always make "the strongest" something or another. If you want to proof that the strongest lock is a frame lock, all you would have to do, is to build a knife with 0.5 in hardend steel handle slabs. The fact that no human would be capable of unlocking the knife anymore would be irrelevant, but you would still hold the title strongest lock.

I didn't mean to say that a frame lock is a weak lock (especially not one on a Sebenza), let alone a lock that would be to weak to be safe. I am convinced that a well made frame lock (probalby even a well made liner lock) will easily achieve lock strengths that exceed anything I could put a knife through. Which is still a lot more than I should put a knife through. 900 #s will break my back in a squat (heck, it will squish almost all olympic weightlifters), and even if I would hold the knife in both hands would cleanly snap my wrists. 240 pounds on the tip of the knife isn't make it any better for my hands, since the leverage is greater and the force on my hands is still the same.
 
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