I definately plan on following this thread as it looks to get some interesting responses.
I don't have nor have I ever seen(in person) the Apogee. From the pics I have seen it looks to be a pretty awesome blade.
I do have and fairly love the Sebenza and would say any knife that outperforms this one will have to be something special indeed. Is the Apogee comparable....?
I don't know. Anyone have or handled both who cares to answer....? I too am all ears.
------------------ The bible is not such a book a man would write if he could, or could write if he would.
Which is better? Well, that question usually requires the standard reply of better in what way? But with the Apogee, I think it is safe to say that generally, the Apogee is better.
So, how is the Apogee better?
It is bigger, or at least the large Apogee is. More handle, more blade, still carries very comfortably.
The handle has more contours. Better grip. The size of the handle is also an advantage for retention.
The blade of the Apogee is CPM420V versus BG-42. 420V is just better. It is at least as tough, probably tougher, and is more wear resistant than BG-42.
The Apogee is prettier.
The Apogee is custom made. You can ask Darrel for a pretty wide variety of blade variations. I like the standard recurve, but I have seen other Apogees with Sebenza-like blades on them.
Darrel is not only one of the most talented, he is also one of the nicest guys in the business. It is tremendous luck for me that he came down from heaven to make knives for users. And speaking of using knives, I have been fairly hard on my Apogee, and it just soaks up the hard use. The handle finish of the Apogee shows wear much less than the bead blasted finish on the standard Benza.
A lot of how people feel about the two knives will depend on personal preference of course. The Sebenza is a great knife and it is very precisely made. It really has no faults, but the Apogee is just better.
Yup, Steve hit the nail right on the head. As an owner of both knives, I prefer the Apogee anyday (though, I'm NOT saying the Sebenza is not a well made knife...) The contours of the Ap's handle fits my hand better, and as far as blade steels are concerned 420V is a real workhorse.
Plus, with the Apogee being custom made Darrel was able to work with me on some minor modifications that I wanted on my large Apogee. Don't be afraid to ask him!
For a while I had been contemplating getting a decorated Sebenza, but when Darrel told me of the Apogee that kind of derailed that train of thought
Overall, its a great knife. Sure, it's a real pretty knife but don't let that fool you - its a hardcore user.
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THIS IS MY FIRST REPLY.I JUST GOT A COMPUTER.I FOUND THE BLADE FORUM FROM MY
COMPUTER AT WORK,IT'S GREAT.NOW I CAN JOIN.
APOGEE VS. SEBENZA
I HAVE 2 SEBENZA'S THE OLD AND NEW(BOTH LARGE).I HAVE THE SMALL APOGEE.THEY ARA BOTH GREAT KNIVES.BOTH HAVE GREAT SERVICE AND BACK
THE SEBENZA I FEEL HAS BETTER BLADE GEOMETRY
IT'S THE BEST CUTTING FOLDER I HAVE(AND THATS
CLOSE TO 100 FOLDERS)BOTH OF MY LARGE BENZAS
CAME AS SHARP AS I'VE SEEN OUT OF THE BOX.I'TS THE BEST WORKING FOLDER I HAVE(HENCE THE NAME SEBENZA)
THE APOGEE DEFINITLY HAS BETTER STEEL 420V.
NOT THAT BG42 IS BAD.BUT THE EDGE HAS TO GO
TO THE APOGEE IN THAT DEPT.
HANDLES-THIS IS STRICTLY A MATTER OF OPINION
THE SEBENZA JUST FEELS BETTER IN MY HAND.NOW I KNOW I SAID I HAD THE SMALL APOGEE,HOWEVER
I HAVE PICKED UP THE MEDIUM AND LARGE ONES.
IN THE LOOKS AREA ITS NOT EVEN CLOSE.THE APOGEE HAS THE MULTI-COLORED HANDLE WITH SOME
FILE WORK AND THOSE STIPPLES OR WHATEVER THEIR CALLED LOOK GOOD,THERE AT BOTH ENDS OF THE HANDLE,WHERE THE BOLSTER WOULD BE AND NEAR THE LANYARD HOLE.DARYLS KIND OF CROSS-SECTION LINES LOOK GREAT AND HELP IN THE GRIP.
OPENING-THE SEBENZA HAS THE SMOOTHEST OPENING BLADE.I MEAN IT'S LIKE BUTTER,YOU COULD PLAY WITH THIS THING ALL DAY.THE FIRST
BENZA I GOT WITH THE NYLATRON BUSHING IS EVEN
SMOOTHER.REEVES SWITCHED TO COPPER(I THINK)ON
HIS NEWER DESIGN.THE THUMB STUD IS PERFECT AND THE DETENT BEARING DOES IT'S JOB FINE.
THE APOGEE ALSO OPENS SMOOTH,ITS JUST NOT AS
SMOOTH AS THE BENZA.THIS IS PROBABABLY CAUSE OF THE EQUIPMENT DIFFERENCE.CRK HAS STATE OF THE ART STUFF.DARRYL RALPH HANDMAKES HIS KNIVES.EDGE GOES TO THE SEBENZA.
DEFENCE-THE APOGEE IS MORE GEARED TO THIS.THE BLADE SEEMS STRONGER AND THE POINT
CENTERED SLIGHTLY BETTER.I WOULD HAVE COMPLETE CONFIDENCE IN EITHER KNIFE.THE INTREGAL LOCKS ARE UP THERE WITH THE BEST.
EDGE GOES TO THE APOGEE.
PRICE-THIS HAS TO GO TO THE SEBENZA.$325 VS.
$375 FOR MY SMALL APOGEE,I THINK THE MEDIUM IS $475 ? NOW I KNOW YOU CAN CUSTOMIZE THE FEATURES ON THE APOGEE BUT I BELIVE THAT MAY ADD TO THE PRICE.
EDGE GOES TO THE SEBENZA.
I CANT COMPARE THE CLIPS.MY SMALL APOGEE DOES'NT HAVE ONE AND ONLY MY NEWER MODEL SEBENZA HAS ONE.I HAVE NEVER HAD ANY PROBLEMS
WITH IT THOUGH I'VE HEARD THAT OTHERS HAVE.
SUMMING IT UP THEY ARE BOTH GREAT KNIVES.BOTH WILL BACK THEIR PRODUCT-NO PROBLEM.I THINK YOU GET A LITTLE MORE BANG FOR THE BUCK WITH THE SEBENZA.
From a Consumer Reports standpoint, the Sebenza has the edge purely because of the consistency of production. Darrel is a truly talented artist with a wide variety of skills that all contribute to the finished product, one of the finest knives any one man can make. But as he has stated, he is only one man producing these items by hand. The production process involved in making the Sebenza from Chris Reeve Knives results in a more consistent piece of goods. When rating a product in such a manner, this has to be a key factor.
Apogee is better. Most great customs are better than production knives. Apogee is a great custom, and is a better investment. No doubt about it. Apogee feels so much better in the hand, due to the great handle. Mechanically, the Apogee is AWESOME. Sebenzas are great, Apogees, are GREATER.
[This message has been edited by Running Wolf (edited 21 November 1999).]
I have handled both and prefer and have an "apogee". I have one of the earliest ones out and while at first (for about 2 weeks) it was a real pain to close, that's right close! after a while the titanium stopped gauling as much against the 420v steel. I have a large and if your apogee dosen't open smooth or fast enough for you then your just not opening and closing it enough. The more I do it the smoother it gets. While I worry about damaging any knife in this price range, including the apogee I have had no problems in abusing it. I have cut and stripped wire with it (not cause I wanted to I had to, to get the car running to get home) and I didn't cause any damage to the blade. I think that the Sebenza is a great knife, but we are not comparing the same thing here.
Just received an "EXTREME" Apogee last Thursday - have had a large Sebenza for over a year - NO COMPARISON!! - Apogee is king!. For the reasons Steve, Dexter & others have said - don't need to repeat everything. Plus on Friday Darrel told me to use the hell out of the knife - when it was suitably beat up send it back so he could refurbish it so I could do it again. Now that's my kind of maker!!(Kit Carson told me the same thing). For all of its elegance he wants you to use it, not sit on some shelf/table/cabinet. I respect that and as much as I would like to keep it pristine I feel I must honor his wishes and use it(hard). Albeit I like my Sebenza as much as before, the Apogee is the superior knife. Having Darrel standing behind the knife just adds to its superiority.
The Sebenza is probably the highest quality limited run production knife available (Which warrants the custom made price). What you are purchasing is a Chris Reeve knife design mass produced by a team of highly skilled craftsmen.
The Apogee however is truly a hand made design crafted start to finish by one of the most skilled and collectable custom knifemakers. As far as ergonomics and style the Apogee is head and shoulders above the Sebenza. If however you prefer a stout, conventional work knife, you may not agree with my last statement.
As far as style, don't let the Apogee's sexy lines and annodization fool you. This is is tough, hard working combat/utility knife.
My vote is for the Apogee but I also offer my compliments to CRK.
[This message has been edited by Tiger (edited 19 December 1999).]