- Joined
- Nov 27, 2012
- Messages
- 490
I got my first CRK in yesterday, a Sebenza 21. While it is a very nice and well made knife, it's made me appreciate my 710 a lot more. I'd imagine if I took both around to people that didn't know what they were, not everyone would choose the sebenza. A comparison between the two:
Blade:My 710 is satin M390, which I much prefer over the S35vn on the sebenza. I understand that S35vn is good enough for most people, however it just irks me that a knife costing that much doesn't use the highest level of steel. Call me a steel snob. The grind on my 710 is very good and even, however the Sebenza's is awesome. They did a great job on the hollow grind that actually tapers back a bit before the edge. This is one place where the price difference is evident. Neither of the edges on either knife is factory so I can't compare them.
Materials:I like both. I feel G10 on the 710 will handle wear better, or at least won't show it as much as titanium. In fact my 710 has been there and done that and still looks quite new. However, I am an aerospace guy, so I appreciate titanium as well. Does anyone know where CRK sources their titanium? Berry compliant? I would have to say a draw here.
Ergos:This was one thing I didn't like so much on the 710 compared to some other knives, I could never get a completely comfortable grip. The best grip position I have for it is putting the thumb on the back of the blade with the joint right where the handle peaks. The Sebenza is better for me, although not the best. I have to say most ergonomic for me is the ZT 350. The 710 rides very well in the pocket, however the Sebenza is just a tad bit better.
Appearance:This is a tough one. I find both to be incredibly elegant designs. I really like the looks of the blade on the 710 with its recurve. However the Sebenza's shape and hollow grind look great as well. I like the clip attachment of the Sebenza better as its integrated into the knife, not put on as an afterthought. There's no extra mounting holes for it either on the sebenza. I made my decision based on which one I'd be more comfortable whipping out at a social gathering, and decided on the Sebenza, although the 710 is very close. The blade appearance was a tie, but the handle appearance is what made the Sebenza win out.
The important stuff (build quality, smoothness, lockup):This to me, is by far the most important aspect to a knife. I realize that if you get 20 Sebenzas, they would probably rate the same in these categories. However that would not be the case for 710s. In fact I got rid of my first two 710s for this reason, but this one is a keeper.
A bit of background on this 710: it is in no way shape or form "out of the box". While it came relatively smooth and solid, I tinker with my axis locks as soon as I get them, and this 710 came out the best. I took it completely apart, polished the washers, replaced the backspacer with barrel spacers, and adjusted the screws (note: plural screws, the pivot screw is not the only screw that affects smoothness and lockup). I received barrel spacers from BM and used those to replace the backspacer the 710 came with. After I installed these, I measured gap at the front, middle, and rear between the liners, and grinded down the spacers accordingly so they would match the gap at the front where the pivot is. The end result is an incredibly smooth and solid pivot. There is no wiggle whatsoever, even when the blade is not locked. I have opened the knife halfway, held the axis lock open so the only thing contacting the blade was the washers and tried to wiggle the blade. No movement at all. The smoothness I measure by how freely the blade drops when I unlock it. If I have it open and horizontal when I unlock it, I will swing down, around, and hit my finger. At the moment the edge is not sharp enough to cut me when I do it, but when I get around to sharpening it, I have no doubt that it hit my finger with enough force to cut it. This is why I choose the 710 to compare to the Sebenza as this one I've put more work into than any of my other knives.
I bought the Sebenza because I am a Quality engineer working in aerospace. I had a bit of chuckle when I hear "CRK are held to better than aerospace tolerances". "Aerospace tolerances" differ depending on what item it is, and how important it is. A critical safety item is going to be held to a much higher tolerance than an access panel. It also depends on the specific company and program and the quality standard they follow. Not all aircraft manufacturers are AS9100C certified, and I highly doubt CRK hold themselves to what it calls out for, and it would be stupid to try for a $500 knife. If I had Lockheed build me a Sebenza and hold it to their tolerances used for critical safety items, it would cost $10000. This is [educated] speculation and if I am wrong about CRK, then I apologize and I'm amazed that it can be done for $500. Although this sounds like I'm bashing CRK, it's really just bashing the statement that they are held to better than the aerospace industry. I'm not even sure where that statement came from, could have just been a fan. With all that being said, the Sebenza is built extremely well. Lockup is very solid, right at 50% which is exactly where I like it. There is no wiggle in it either, even when holding to lock open with the blade open only halfway (same as 710 test, although harder to do with frame lock). Smoothness is very good as well, although it's difficult to feel do to the frame lock.
I compared the smoothness of the two by holding them both open with the blade pointed upwards and the locks away from the blade. This is the only way I could test it with the framelock. I then tapped upwards on the blade to see how easily it rotated. In this test, the 710 won out. Just a slight bump moved the blade considerably and the force of gravity brought it right back down hard immediately. The Sebenza was excellent as well, however I could tell there was just a bit more friction, although probably better than my other axis lock knives excluding this 710. I should note that the 710 is lubricated with a mix of CLP, nano oil, and quick release. This is not some special formula, just stuff I had on hand while lubing it at different times and not bothering to take the old lube off. The Sebenza has florinated grease, which may be why there was extra felt friction. Although I felt it was due more to how tight the pivot was. When opening the blade normally, the axis of the 710 wins out by far. I can flip open the 710 with just light pressure to break through the detent, no wrist movement whatsoever. The frame lock of the Sebenza does not allow for this as I have to flick my wrist, or get a really good strong flick with the thumb, which is resulted in me losing a bit of skin on the thumb after trying it for a while. The 710 definitely wins out in real world opening and closing. This is not a hit on the quality of the Sebenza, it just shows my preference for the axis lock.
If I had to choose, the winner of this category would go to the 710. I know CRK fans will hate me for this as this category is what their knives are known for excelling at, however I have explained my reasons. I will note again that my 710 is NOT out of the box and that I've tinkered with it quite a bit.
Conclusion
I never said I was only keeping one =). After comparing the two, I've decided they are both keepers. The Sebenza will probably be used in more formal occasions and social gatherings. The 710 is part of my EDC rotation, but hasn't seen any really hard use. Only cutting cardboard at most. I have other knives (810 Contego, Busses) for harder use.
Pictures:
The barrels spacers on the 710:
Both are perfectly centered:
Blade:My 710 is satin M390, which I much prefer over the S35vn on the sebenza. I understand that S35vn is good enough for most people, however it just irks me that a knife costing that much doesn't use the highest level of steel. Call me a steel snob. The grind on my 710 is very good and even, however the Sebenza's is awesome. They did a great job on the hollow grind that actually tapers back a bit before the edge. This is one place where the price difference is evident. Neither of the edges on either knife is factory so I can't compare them.
Materials:I like both. I feel G10 on the 710 will handle wear better, or at least won't show it as much as titanium. In fact my 710 has been there and done that and still looks quite new. However, I am an aerospace guy, so I appreciate titanium as well. Does anyone know where CRK sources their titanium? Berry compliant? I would have to say a draw here.
Ergos:This was one thing I didn't like so much on the 710 compared to some other knives, I could never get a completely comfortable grip. The best grip position I have for it is putting the thumb on the back of the blade with the joint right where the handle peaks. The Sebenza is better for me, although not the best. I have to say most ergonomic for me is the ZT 350. The 710 rides very well in the pocket, however the Sebenza is just a tad bit better.
Appearance:This is a tough one. I find both to be incredibly elegant designs. I really like the looks of the blade on the 710 with its recurve. However the Sebenza's shape and hollow grind look great as well. I like the clip attachment of the Sebenza better as its integrated into the knife, not put on as an afterthought. There's no extra mounting holes for it either on the sebenza. I made my decision based on which one I'd be more comfortable whipping out at a social gathering, and decided on the Sebenza, although the 710 is very close. The blade appearance was a tie, but the handle appearance is what made the Sebenza win out.
The important stuff (build quality, smoothness, lockup):This to me, is by far the most important aspect to a knife. I realize that if you get 20 Sebenzas, they would probably rate the same in these categories. However that would not be the case for 710s. In fact I got rid of my first two 710s for this reason, but this one is a keeper.
A bit of background on this 710: it is in no way shape or form "out of the box". While it came relatively smooth and solid, I tinker with my axis locks as soon as I get them, and this 710 came out the best. I took it completely apart, polished the washers, replaced the backspacer with barrel spacers, and adjusted the screws (note: plural screws, the pivot screw is not the only screw that affects smoothness and lockup). I received barrel spacers from BM and used those to replace the backspacer the 710 came with. After I installed these, I measured gap at the front, middle, and rear between the liners, and grinded down the spacers accordingly so they would match the gap at the front where the pivot is. The end result is an incredibly smooth and solid pivot. There is no wiggle whatsoever, even when the blade is not locked. I have opened the knife halfway, held the axis lock open so the only thing contacting the blade was the washers and tried to wiggle the blade. No movement at all. The smoothness I measure by how freely the blade drops when I unlock it. If I have it open and horizontal when I unlock it, I will swing down, around, and hit my finger. At the moment the edge is not sharp enough to cut me when I do it, but when I get around to sharpening it, I have no doubt that it hit my finger with enough force to cut it. This is why I choose the 710 to compare to the Sebenza as this one I've put more work into than any of my other knives.
I bought the Sebenza because I am a Quality engineer working in aerospace. I had a bit of chuckle when I hear "CRK are held to better than aerospace tolerances". "Aerospace tolerances" differ depending on what item it is, and how important it is. A critical safety item is going to be held to a much higher tolerance than an access panel. It also depends on the specific company and program and the quality standard they follow. Not all aircraft manufacturers are AS9100C certified, and I highly doubt CRK hold themselves to what it calls out for, and it would be stupid to try for a $500 knife. If I had Lockheed build me a Sebenza and hold it to their tolerances used for critical safety items, it would cost $10000. This is [educated] speculation and if I am wrong about CRK, then I apologize and I'm amazed that it can be done for $500. Although this sounds like I'm bashing CRK, it's really just bashing the statement that they are held to better than the aerospace industry. I'm not even sure where that statement came from, could have just been a fan. With all that being said, the Sebenza is built extremely well. Lockup is very solid, right at 50% which is exactly where I like it. There is no wiggle in it either, even when holding to lock open with the blade open only halfway (same as 710 test, although harder to do with frame lock). Smoothness is very good as well, although it's difficult to feel do to the frame lock.
I compared the smoothness of the two by holding them both open with the blade pointed upwards and the locks away from the blade. This is the only way I could test it with the framelock. I then tapped upwards on the blade to see how easily it rotated. In this test, the 710 won out. Just a slight bump moved the blade considerably and the force of gravity brought it right back down hard immediately. The Sebenza was excellent as well, however I could tell there was just a bit more friction, although probably better than my other axis lock knives excluding this 710. I should note that the 710 is lubricated with a mix of CLP, nano oil, and quick release. This is not some special formula, just stuff I had on hand while lubing it at different times and not bothering to take the old lube off. The Sebenza has florinated grease, which may be why there was extra felt friction. Although I felt it was due more to how tight the pivot was. When opening the blade normally, the axis of the 710 wins out by far. I can flip open the 710 with just light pressure to break through the detent, no wrist movement whatsoever. The frame lock of the Sebenza does not allow for this as I have to flick my wrist, or get a really good strong flick with the thumb, which is resulted in me losing a bit of skin on the thumb after trying it for a while. The 710 definitely wins out in real world opening and closing. This is not a hit on the quality of the Sebenza, it just shows my preference for the axis lock.
If I had to choose, the winner of this category would go to the 710. I know CRK fans will hate me for this as this category is what their knives are known for excelling at, however I have explained my reasons. I will note again that my 710 is NOT out of the box and that I've tinkered with it quite a bit.
Conclusion
I never said I was only keeping one =). After comparing the two, I've decided they are both keepers. The Sebenza will probably be used in more formal occasions and social gatherings. The 710 is part of my EDC rotation, but hasn't seen any really hard use. Only cutting cardboard at most. I have other knives (810 Contego, Busses) for harder use.
Pictures:
The barrels spacers on the 710:
Both are perfectly centered:
Last edited:
