Sebenza's actually not that smooth?

The ceramic ball being part of the "stiffer" result is right on the money. Chris Reeve indends this knife to be a utility knife, not a self defense knife. One can defend themselves with WHATEVER is in the hand at that time. For us wackjobs, it's ususally a sebenza! Let us not forget that "Sebenza" means "Work" in Zulu. The ceramic ball along with the SUPER tight tolerances (and a zillion other aspects) come together resulting in EXACTLY what Chris wants, and I am proud to carry every day. I am of the opinion that other than being pre-broken in, no maker that utilizes the frame-lock design can more than equal the sebenza... that is except for the prodigy... Mr. Scott Cook. The design and function, and end result that we get to hold in our hands are want I consider realistically perfect. Maybe I should consider that I play the guitar everyday, and I prolly have stronger fingers/hands than most. I guess one could flitz the washers and LIGHTLY file the ceramic ball... if you wanna do a years breaking in in a few minutes.

PS... I don't care WHO makes knives with nylon washers. Nylon breaks down. Nylon gets hot and warps. Sure it is smooth. I think there is SOOOOOOOOO much more to a knife than being smooooth opening. Like being reliable. (Yes I realize that Mayo and Carson use nylon.) THe weay I see it is that someday, I might find myself in a position where I cannot just order new washers, or have any on hand. In that case, I'll take the bronze washers that my children and their children will enjoy in a working, and 70 years later still play-free heritage of my favorite knife. Nylon sux.
 
Jadis,

I have experienced smoother, but generally not in a framelock. For a framelock, a Sebbie can be among the smoothest out there. It is tough to compare a framelock with a liner lock or AXIS lock, IMO, because of the mechanical differences in the lock bar, and handle.

There is probably also a tradeoff between detente strength and smoothness, as has been mentioned.
 
Excellent point about frame locks' added friction. I often find myself bearing down on the lock a bit with my fingers while trying to open (or close). This certainly does not help with smooth opening.

Cheers.
 
Originally posted by monanza
Excellent point about frame locks' added friction. I often find myself bearing down on the lock a bit with my fingers while trying to open (or close). This certainly does not help with smooth opening.
Click to expand...

As Homer would say: DOH!
 
monanza,

a little technique that I use to take the lockbar out of play when opening is to keep my fingertips poised on the clip and edge of the lockbar - exerting pressure towards the side of the handle with the spacer and stop bar. This removes pressure against the lockbar that would push it against the blade, via the detente. A little repetition will make this second nature.
 
Thanks Geode, I'll work on that and see where it gets me (besides bleeding figertips :D). My biggest problem is that I tend to be somewhat 'negligent' with my fingers. So until I have learned to keep them out of the way of a closing blade I have to be careful where I put them. I also remove the clip on my Sebbs to get a slimmer profile for utility pocket carry (and to minimize the clip rub marks on the lock bar).

I just need a lot of parctice (I've only had my Sebb for a few weeks).

Cheers.
 
Originally posted by Jadis
If you screw down the pivot EXACTLY to the point where there is no play (i.e. you are now exerting the minimum clamping force required),
Click to expand...

There is no such point when you screw down the pivot in your Benza. That's the difference between chris Reeve folder and say BM. You just screw down the pivot fully. You cannot 'tighten' Sebenza. Why? Please, disasemble your Benza and you will see why. There is an internal tube or whatever you call that, which sits in the pivot hole of the blade. You screw down the pivot just to press Ti slabs against that tube with full force and that's it. The blade rotates on that pivot tube, not on the pivot screw itself. That trick makes the Sebenza so nice to open... yes, it costs more than just a hole and screw you can find in 99,9% of production knives. But such blade pivoting system is MUCH superior to BM, Spyderco, Kershaw, CRKT and other knives I've handled. Just my $0.02.
 
Hey Piter, did you read my post in this thread? ;):D:)

Just FYI, that internal tube is called a 'bushing'.

Ted
 
Originally posted by Ted Voorde
Hey Piter, did you read my post in this thread? ;):D:)
Click to expand...
Nope Ted :(

I'm just back after almost 3 weeks of sailing (no net on the yacht) so when I noticed this post I've just reacted instantly ;) I love Benzas too much to let any such post not answered...
 
One of the pariticipants in the thread had emailed to ask a question about this - sorry it has taken a while to respond - here are Chris' comments:

Sebenza means “to work” – our quest is the ultimate in all round function, combined with aesthetic appeal. We are not into the flashy fast opening flick of the wrist type of folder.
The words “smooth and easy opening” can be interpreted in different ways. Easy opening could mean a loose hinge with side play and very little lock pressure. This is not what I want in a folding knife – sloppy hinges do not last and only get sloppier. I want a positive lockup and no side play. It is interesting to note that we are talking about older Sebenzas and newer Sebenzas, there is no talk of older XYZ knives and new ones. This has to be because Sebenzas last! When you buy a Sebenza, you buy a knife for the rest of your life. That is our goal and that is why we offer the lifetime warranty and unrivaled back up on our knives.

There have been some small changes over the years in the quest of improved performance. The front thrust washer was increased in size some years ago to give a little more side support for the blade. This increases metal to metal contact and thus a little more friction. The detent was changed to a ceramic ball but this has absolutely nothing to do with the slight increase in drag. Some years ago we increased the spring tension of the locking bar, resulting in a little more pressure on the detent ball and slightly increased drag. The benefit is that there is a more positive lockup. The increased drag is a small price to pay for the longevity gained.

The higher drag is a part of the Integral Lock© design. On a liner lock, the locking bar is no more than .040” - .060” thick and the bend is in an arc, similar to that of a fishing pole. The Integral Lock bends at the two radii at the back of the handle and is a much more positive lock up and requires more side pressure.

Hand/thumb/index finger technique. If your index finger is placing pressure on the back of the lock, then you are increasing the friction required to open the knife. If your thumb is pushing down on the thumb stud instead of sideways in a motion around the pivot, there is also increased friction. Sebenzas do have a little more opening drag but I believe it is a superior locking mechanism. Please don’t polish washers or other parts of your Sebenzas and, even more critical, don’t use any polishing compound in the mechanism. This will open up the tight tolerances that we strive so hard to achieve and it will void your warranty.

I hope this sheds some more light into what makes Sebenzas the knives that they are!

Chris Reeve
 
CRK,

Thanks for the response. Summarizes things very nicely. I appreciate Chris's perspective.

Cheers.
 
I agree with everything CR said, and i thank him for responding, but, there certainly are liner locks thicker than .060, the liners on the Strider AR for example are .100! :)
 
"Jadis" means "Long Time Ago" in French.

And long time ago, when I handled my first Sebenza it was the smoother of all the knives I vere opened.

cheers

JM
 
I own 2 Lg. Sebenzas, a 2002 Box Elder inlay Regular, and a Classic with snakewood and gold wire inlays, both beautiful, and yes, both safe queens, never used them, only fondled and opened and closed them and until the other day, i had never disassembled a Sebenza and so have historically been stuck with the smoothness that the knife came with from the factory.

Anyway, they both seemed pretty smooth to me out of the box, but i did think i felt a little hint of grittiness in the action in certain points along its arc, and i traced it to the detent ball, i knew this becuase if i pushed the lock away from the blade, the blade lost that friction and slight grittiness i had felt. So, i began to suspect that what was said before is true, that the ceramic ball isnt as smooth against the blade as the older steel ball.

Now, i bought these knives brand new, so they were cleaned and lubed by CRK at the factory and so, you might think that the action can't be made smoother, after all, wouldnt they be lubed the perfect way at CR before shipping? Well, apparently not, and im also here to say that there is nothing wrong with the ceramic ball, any Sebenza with it can be as smooth as any knife ever made, i know this because i spent some time over the last few days really experimenting with taking them apart and lubing them in different ways, and i believe i have the ultimate method, because both of my knives are now identical in smoothness of the action, which is to say literal perfection, not one single hint of an inconsistancy in the action, they are both now, literally flawless, as smooth as ANY knife i have ever felt, including all manner of customs, and including knives by Boguszewski who is widely regarded as the king of the smooooooooth action, these 2 Sebenzas are now so smooth its amazing, but still firm, in other words, it still requires a little effort to open and close the blade, as it should be, but as the blade moves, its a feeling of ultimate smoothness that really defies description, and both of these Sebenzas have the ceramic balls, so that clearly isnt the issue, its all about how you lube them.

Without writing a book, ill say that first, buy and use the CR Fluorinated grease and ONLY this grease, you dont need oil on these knives. Second, apply the lightest film of grease to the sides of the blade where the washers go, and the washers themselves, and, make sure to put a tiny pinpoint spot of grease on and around the face of detent ball and a tiny dab inside the corresponding small hole in the blade doesnt hurt either.

The results are spectacular and im so pleased with my 2 Sebenzas, im tempted to now buy more Sebenzas just to see how smooth i can make them. You do not need to polish anything, both washers had a few small dark spots, what others are calling the patina, they do not affect smoothness at all, dont worry about them. I did not polish anything and the smoothness of each knife simply cannot be improved upon. It just doesnt get any smoother. I feel like i have 2 brand new knives! :) And remember, both knives were brand spanking new in the box and never used in any way, and its night and day between how they were and how they now both are.

Im so giddy and thankful i finally decided to learn how to do this, that i make everybody this offer, if anybody has a Sebenza that isnt silky smooth, and you dont want to take it apart for whatever reason, email me, send it to me insured mail, with enough $ to pay me for return shipping, the amount will vary depending on the model, and i will make it as smooth as any knife youve ever handled simply by cleaning it properly and lubing it properly. I am also a perfectionist, so dont worry about scratches or damage, im more careful with knives that any sane person should, or maybe can be. :) Your knife will be sent back smoother than you could have imagined. I must be crazy for doing this, but in a way, its kind of fun. Thats why they call us knife NUTS. :eek: :)
 
I've often wondered why so many users find that cleaning and reassembling the Seb frequently improves its action. Is it reasonable to assume that to get the best action from any knife requires some extra experimentation and fine adjustment? Despite the tight tolerances on a Seb the factory can not spend the time needed to optimize each knife that leaves the line. It would seem that any production knife could be improved upon by careful maintenance and some trial and error. Only custom knives should come optimized out of the box.

Is this a fair assessment or should a knife in the Seb's price range be perfect out of the box? Mind you I am perfectly happy with mine but I have yet to dissassemble, clean, relube, and reassemble any of them (so I don't yet know what I am missing, if anything).

Cheers.

Edit - Or is it that a knife just needs a bit of action and breaking in before it reaches its optimum performance?
 
Monanza,

A Sebenza can be cleaned & re-assembled, but can not be fine adjusted. There is nothing to adjust. All screws are fastened tight.

The type of oil can make a lot of difference. I used several, and CRK's grease is the best so far.

I've used the following:

Militec-1 2nd best, but attracts lint easier and needs 'break-in' / heating
Tuff-glide Too thin, bad 'smell'
White Lightening Too thick
CRK Grease Best, but expensive!

Ted

How to clean a Sebenza (CRK recommended procedure):

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=260685
 
Thanks Ted,

Clearly I don't know what I am talking about :D (not having dissassembled a Seb yet). So it must be that a period of breaking in and subsequent clean up is what makes the difference. In which case even a custom knife will benefit from breaking in and cleanup. Just trying to wrap my brain around this knitpicky issue.

Cheers.
 
Honestly, i dont think the knife needs any break in to be super smooth, just proper cleaning and lube, i say this since both of mine were absolutely brand new in the box and had not had any break in before i stripped, cleaned and lubed them, and they are smooth as silk now, so, no, i think its all about the cleaning and subsequent lube and as others said, CR grease is the way to go.
 
I'll chime in with my .02. Having just recieved my small seb back from Idaho for a lube & sharpen. I doubt that I have ever handled a knife that was as smooth to open and close, combined with the solid lock up of the knife. Blade is centered, and sharp. Basically, it's perfect for what it is.
Of course, I'll still buy other knives in the future, but the standard for which they will compared towards (for knives > $300.00 and more) will be the sebbie.
 
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