Second night out

[Joben]

Episode II in Joben's attempts to farmiliarize himself with sleeping outdoors:

I'm house sitting for some relatives and feeding their pets while they're on vacation.

For some reason last night I didn't feel like I could sleep at all. So around 10 I went for a walk. I picked blackberries by flashlight, cursed their startling motion sensor lights , and walked around the pond behind their property.

It was a nice night, almost full moon, humidity was about 90%, but cool enough to discourage the mosquitos. I didn't really want to go back in.

They have a hammock, I've never slept in one so i figured i would give it a try. I had an opened mylar 'space blanket' So i figured I would see how well one of those worked too.

My first discovery is that getting a small'ish blanket around you in a hammock is tricky. You either wrap it first, then wriggle onto the hammock like a caterpillar. Or you can try to lay it on the hammock and flop down on it hoping it won't get bunched up, then try to fold it over youself without falling out. This is all complicated by the fact that it weighs nothing and billows in the slightest breeze.

The space blanket may be big enough to sleep with on the ground, in a hammock it was basically impossible to get it around me properly. I always ended up with with some of me out in the cold, or with a gap I couldn't get tucked in. I tried curling up smaller, but then I would get a cramp and need to streatch.

In this weather that was more annoying than anything else.
But it got pretty darned annoying around 2am when the wind picked up, and I hadn't really slept yet and my sixth attempt at adjusting the blanket failed miserably.

At that point i figured I had my data, so i stumbled grumpily inside and fell asleep on the couch.

My impression: hammocks are comfy.
Common space blankets work...but are far far from optimal, and really need to be about 20% bigger.

I think I'll try my AMK Heatsheats bivy tommorow night...

 

[x39]

Common space blankets work...but are far far from optimal, and really need to be about 20% bigger.

It would be nice if they were somewhat quieter as well.

 

[Joben]

It would be nice if they were somewhat quieter as well.

oh good grief, yes, it sounded like a giant eating potato chips every time I moved.

The AMK Heatsheats stuff seems a lot quieter.
Like i said i've got one of their bivys bags.
But I think I"m gonna get a couple of their "Two Person" blankets. That should solve both the coverage and noise problems.

 

[Mistwalker]

......Common space blankets work...but are far far from optimal, and really need to be about 20% bigger.

I think I'll try my AMK Heatsheats bivy tommorow night...

AMK makes the best "space-blankets" as well totally different than the old style and they make a larger one also. I did a post on one some time back and was really impressed with them as a whole.

 

[Bushman5]

there is also the heavy duty tarps with the reflective sheeting bonded to them, they are quite quiet and a LOT tougher

 

[Joben]

Well I spent a night out in my AMK heat sheats bivy (the ~ $12 one, not the $24 one, not sure what the diff is)

That was definitely an improvement on the mylar blanket. It wasn't what i'd call comfortable, but i slept till about dawn, and well enough to be functional that day.

It wasn't quite as warm as I expected, even in moderate late summer weather. The main problem though was condensation.

After an hour or so the inside feels cold and clammy...
By morning there were little droplets beaded over the entire inner surface. (Wow! I had no idea humans lost this much moisture even when we aren't sweating.)

I remember several times partly waking up because of the startling feeling of cold water when my hands brushed against the bag.

lol and I think at some point i got cold and pulled the bivy up over my head. Exhaled moisture probably didn't help the condensation thing. But hey, it's hard to think things through when you aren't awake.


As a piece of survival gear I give the Heatsheats Bivy a B+.
Because it's does keep you warmer, it blocks wind, and it's very small and light. I'd be happy to have it if my car broke down in wintertime or whatnot.

As a piece of camping gear I give it a C-
You could simulate the comfort level by libraly spritzing down your sheets with a spray bottle before going to bed.
Dang, no cheap comfy disposable sleeping bag for me.

So...were does one go from here in search of very compact sleep gear?

 

[Don Rearic]

Joben,

I think it is great you are doing this. So, you have never really slept outdoors and this is your familiarization program? Just to clarify...

I think what you are doing is great and I hope you are not discouraged and I hope you enjoy the experience.

Also, perhaps other people will have a different opinion, but I don't think our ancestors slept as soundly as we do now in the comfort of our burglar alarmed structures with firearms and other defensive items close at hand...with all of our modern heating and blankets, etc. I think the way we "were" just going back over 75 years ago is a lot closer to what you are experiencing than what we all experience now on a nightly basis.

 

[Rotte]

Don --

I swear I sleep better when I'm outside than at home. Somehow a day playing outside, the fresh air, sitting by a fire, and staring at the stars sets me up for sleep. I'm out in a split second and sleep like the dead. Our ancestors had it right if you ask me.


Joben --

Space blankets are pretty lame for the exact reasons you mentioned. Great in an emergency--I carry one with me at all times--but not standard gear. Keep up the experimentation, you'll find something that works for you.

 

[Fonly]

Don --

I swear I sleep better when I'm outside than at home. Somehow a day playing outside, the fresh air, sitting by a fire, and staring at the stars sets me up for sleep. I'm out in a split second and sleep like the dead. Our ancestors had it right if you ask me.


Joben --

Space blankets are pretty lame for the exact reasons you mentioned. Great in an emergency--I carry one with me at all times--but not standard gear. Keep up the experimentation, you'll find something that works for you.

Can't agree enough with this.:thumbup:

Last shelter I set-up its was pissing rain, huge lighting storm, and I slept like a baby!

I dont know what it is about being in a comfy little shelter, but man it was nice. I know with a full AMK shelter set-up, E.G. A ground sheet, roofing and a bivy sac, its much to hot for summer.

Heres mine.

Went to bed with this.

Woke up to this.

I mean come on, what more can you ask for?

 

[SIXFOOTER]

don't know what part of the country your in, but unless your down here in S Fl you will probably find you need at least 2 different rigs due to tempreture swings thoroughout the year. Here its pretty comfortable year round except for monsoons and skeeters. I now use an REI Travel Sak, works very well, packs up small and weighs 27oz. If I need a little more I either wear silk long johns or add a cotton twin sheet. That does me for most of the year here. When its freezin assed cold ihere in Jan about 45* I have a regular Coleman bag. All that goes on top of a 3" self inflatable sleep pad, also from REI, The pas is the single mose expensive, biggest and heaviest piece of gear I have at 25x73" and 6 lbs. But its worth it.

 

[Don Rearic]

Don --

I swear I sleep better when I'm outside than at home. Somehow a day playing outside, the fresh air, sitting by a fire, and staring at the stars sets me up for sleep. I'm out in a split second and sleep like the dead. Our ancestors had it right if you ask me.

I would agree unless it's camping in hot weather or frigid weather. I did a couple nights in the back of a pickup truck with a cap over me and a surplus sleeping bag back in November of 79 or 80, just being stubborn with my Dad because he had the heat jacked up so high in the camper and I was on the top bunk catching all of it.

In the above post, I was really talking about being cold and sleeping outside. If you don't have the right stuff, you might be in for the shivers.

 

[Joben]

Joben,

I think it is great you are doing this. So, you have never really slept outdoors and this is your familiarization program? Just to clarify...

I think what you are doing is great and I hope you are not discouraged and I hope you enjoy the experience.

Also, perhaps other people will have a different opinion, but I don't think our ancestors slept as soundly as we do now in the comfort of our burglar alarmed structures with firearms and other defensive items close at hand...with all of our modern heating and blankets, etc. I think the way we "were" just going back over 75 years ago is a lot closer to what you are experiencing than what we all experience now on a nightly basis.

That is correct. Until recently I had never slept outside.
I got into it in sorta a round about way, starting with some knives and a ferro rod, then a PSK. I was looking at all the stuff one day and realized that (a) I needed to try it out and practice to be sure it would work if i needed it. And (B) it was cool stuff and I WANTED to really use it. So I decided to take up camping.

I was thinking along similar lines. And I actually kinda like that light sleep feeling. A few times I woke up for noises, birds shrieking at something, a small animal moving close to me. That feeling of awareness even in sleep seems valuable, I hope I can re-program myself to be that way at home in a cozy bed too.

Also, I like waking up in the dawn along with all the other critters. That's a kind of pleasure that isn't easily described.
It makes the start of a new day an interesting and significant event, instead of an abstraction marked by the bleeping of an electronic alarm clock.

 

[Don Rearic]

I've been watching you these few short months and you have went about learning stuff in a very methodical way, reminds me of myself when I was younger. You're avoiding a lot of simple mistakes because you have a bunch of people you can quiz and that's cool. This is the part of the internet/forums that can be great.

 

[tonym]

Joben, I think it's great that you are taking these steps to learning more about the outdoors. There are a bunch of us in CT, that will be more than willing to help you, and learn with you. Siguy for instance is a very knowledgeable young man that enjoys sleeping outdoors with minimal gear (tarp and ground cloth). Feel free email me to get in on some get togethers or long hikes we do rather regularly.

Where in CT are you?

P.S. Even if there is no rain forecasted, puting up a tarp will help with that dew problem you had. Also, as a hammock camper, I find using a ground cloth between my body and the hammock helps keep me warm throughout the night.

Take care,

Tony

 

[hikeeba]

Hi Joben. I must say that I thoroughly enjoy reading your adventures. I find your posts well written and finely detailed. Great job! Way to go on not only continuing your adventure, but also for sharing everything here.

So...were does one go from here in search of very compact sleep gear?

OK, you've done the Mylar space blanket thing, and the AMK HeatSheets bivvy (~$14 one) thing. Next, for lightweight summer/fair weather camping gear, I would suggest 2 items:

-AMK ThermoLite 2 bivvy - It is compact, lightweight, reuseable, and made from multiple plies of a softer material than the HeatSheets stuff. Also, IIRC, it has a velcro vent in the foot area to help reduce condesation (the original ThermoLite bivvy had the vent, so I am assuming the ThermoLite 2 has it , as well). http://www.amazon.com/Adventure-Medical-Kits-Thermo-lite-Bivvy/dp/B000WY2962

-A Guide Gear 50+ rectangle or mummy bag - Available from the Sportsman's Guide or through Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Rectangle-Ultralite-Degree-Sleeping/dp/B0001WU07K), I have found this bag to work well for summer camping. BUT, be advised that it is more of a 58° bag rather than a 50° bag. I hammock camped in one in temps that dipped just below 50°, and I was cold. the only thing that saved me was wrapping a poncho liner around me and the bag. But for warmer weather, it works well. it is light weaight, and it packs down to about the size of a 32 oz Nalgene bottle. I actually have two of these; a mummy and a rectangle. I installed a zippered head hole in the rectangle bag so it can double as an emergency or minimalist poncho. It doesn't look like the Sportsman's Guide has these at the moment, but check back from time to time if you're interested. The bags tend to sell for about $30.


There are other neato, lightweight sleeping solutions out there, too. I merely suggested two items that I own. Good luck, and have fun on your adventures!

 

[PayetteRucker]

I sleep on the wood floor of my apartment. I've slept on the floor for years now, it stretches out my spine after hiking with a pack or running around stressing it all day. If I sleep on a bed or too cushy a surface I wake up with pinched nerves and cramps. Hammocks are nice for many reasons, 1 it gets you up off the cold ground which is usually home to creepie crawlies like rattlesnakes and poisonous bugs. 2, they are comfy and easy to pack. It can take a bit to block out the night sounds and the cold and the wind. A fire helps me so much, just the fact that it is providing heat and some source of light, just that small comfort helps me sleep so much better. I'm at the point now that I can enjoy the night outdoors for what it is, a chance to breathe some fresh air, rest from the day, watch the stars and cook some food. You learn to love it for what it is, make the best out of everything.
And Sixfooter, I've lived in WI, Fl and Tx, now Id and I have one sleeping system-a 30 degree Slumberjack bag that fits in a compression sack and keeps me comfy throughout the year. ( I have a ultralight hammock and 2 person tent depending on the environment and weather) It's not a matter of temperature swings in S Fl (in WI it isn't uncommon to go from 60 to 20 or from 30 to 80 in a 24h period) it's a matter of your body's physical and mental tolerance to different climates. Living in a tropical/coastal climate, you live in a very... survivable temperature range. Trying to recreate when it is -40 is alot different than trying to recreate in 30 or 105.

 

[Fonly]

That is correct. Until recently I had never slept outside.
I got into it in sorta a round about way, starting with some knives and a ferro rod, then a PSK. I was looking at all the stuff one day and realized that (a) I needed to try it out and practice to be sure it would work if i needed it. And (B) it was cool stuff and I WANTED to really use it. So I decided to take up camping.

I was thinking along similar lines. And I actually kinda like that light sleep feeling. A few times I woke up for noises, birds shrieking at something, a small animal moving close to me. That feeling of awareness even in sleep seems valuable, I hope I can re-program myself to be that way at home in a cozy bed too.

Also, I like waking up in the dawn along with all the other critters. That's a kind of pleasure that isn't easily described.
It makes the start of a new day an interesting and significant event, instead of an abstraction marked by the bleeping of an electronic alarm clock.

And when you can experince those things, you've reached the point where everything you do, will be fun and a great Experience to learn from, nothing better in the world.:thumbup:

 

[Joben]

Hikeeba, I'm glad you enjoy my posts.
And thanks for the suggestions, and the explanation of what the other AMK bivy is like.

btw...you arn't by any chance a fan of MST3k?

Joben, I think it's great that you are taking these steps to learning more about the outdoors. There are a bunch of us in CT, that will be more than willing to help you, and learn with you. Siguy for instance is a very knowledgeable young man that enjoys sleeping outdoors with minimal gear (tarp and ground cloth). Feel free email me to get in on some get togethers or long hikes we do rather regularly.

Where in CT are you?

Take care,

Tony

Well that's very kind of you, and I got a similar message from Siguy. It's something I'll consider.

 

[C_Kyle]

Joben,

What temperature range are you talking about? Around 50 degrees, a poncho and liner make a good sleeping bag. I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for. Maybe a fleece or silk sleeping bag liner inside an open emergency blanket, so vapor can escape?

I have a cheap Kelty summer-weight bag that weighs about 1.5lbs, and can compress to the size of a coffee can. It's about as warm as a cho-liner. I actually like the cho-liner better. For a ground cloth, use Tyvek cut to the appropriate size.

 

[Joben]

I'm in Connecticut.
Temps can drop below freezing for about a third of the year, but going below about 10 F. is uncommon even in the coldest months.
For about 9 months out of the year I think I'm lookin at 30-60 F. at nighttime.