Seeking knowledge.

Where abouts along the border are you going to be?If you are close to refuge if it turns a lot less than fun, there probably isn't much harm as long as you keep dry. There is a pretty fine line between keeping active to not get cold and getting warm(sweaty). Try to stay on the dry side.Make sure you take the foam pad and stand on it when you are at camp.Good luck.:thumbup:
 
My first thought was that you're crazy, because your body is accustomed to tropical weather and you want to plunge it into near arctic type of cold. It doesn't work unless you let your body become acclamated to the bitter cold, prior to jumping into the icy conditions. You'll want to lay on some fat to help insulate and provide body warming energy. You'll want to study the cold weather methods of survival and practice them prior to committing yourself to live or die under that type of adverse conditions.
 
The lows here have been near 40* at night.. the best I can do here to get my body used to the cold is to sit out on my deck with nothing but boxers on, smoking cigs at night..

but I do that anyway ;)
 
HK2001 said:
First.. the story..
Sometime near christmas, I'll be leaving the toasty warm comfort of Florida, and I'll be going to just a hair south of the US/Canada border. :eek: While I'm up there getting to know my future in-laws better.. I want to sneak off for 2-3 days to get in some chilly R&R. I'm expecting snow, snow, and sub-zero high temps.

Now.. the questions..

Am I nuts?

I'm planning on going out without shelter.. probably not even a tarp. I'm thinking of attempting a snow insulated A-frame.

Will this keep me alive? Someone must have this kind of experiance.

Thick wool socks.. Gortex Balaclava, Fleece, more Gortex.. that I understand.
But what about legs? Is the best option to pretend like I'm in elementary school again an wear snowpants?
Boots? I was looking at These boots. Anyone have personal experiance with them?
Gloves? I can't find anything that even remotely looks like I'll retain any dexterity with them on.
For a sleeping bag, I'm leaning towards the Mil issued ECWS system. I've heard good things about it, and the bags can be seperated for use in other climates.

Since everything that goes into the woods with me, also needs to go on the plane, I'm probably going to be down to the famous "what 10 things would you bring" situation.

The list so far is:
Mag/Ferro block
Blade
Sidearm (Wolves, bear... nuff said)
PowerBars
Soup (canned) for a little simplicity.
SAK/Multitool
Nag bottle for water.
Paracord.

Any suggestions, comments, concerns are more then welcome. Thanks for the help, I really want to do this.
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Where will you be going? the US/CAN border is pretty big? Yukon? New York? Monatana? What are you going to do on this venture? It can get pretty dull hanging out in a snow cave. I spent 3 years in Fairbanks, so I know someting

Stove and fuel, it will save you a lot of headache, buy fuel when you reach your destination. And heating the water for you nalgene and stuffing it in your sleeping bag is a glorious luxury.

The bears will be asleep. I always carry a gun or three for protection and I support you doing the same, but don't worry about bears.

Will there be enough snow for a cave? In a snow cave its really warm, 32F or so, just make sure there is enough snow where you are going otherwise it could get reeealy cold. Read how to use a candle lantern with proper ventilation and plan to spend some time hanging out in there reading or whatever. Read up on designs and have a good shovel.

Use boots with removable liners so you can sleep/hangout in you sleeping bag with them on to dry and keep your toes warm.

Have a warm toque and neck warmer handy all the time to totally insulate your head and neck. Your head and neck are like 20% of your body surface area.

If the temperature is expected to remain freezing or below gore-tex sucks. Its not breathable enough and condensation on the inside of the membrane freezes, a dangerouse condition. A 3-layer goretex shell allows you to brush out frost, but a thin breathable nylon shell is fine if the temps are well below freezing. This is also why I asked about location, seattle weather is a lot different than north Dakota.

Save weight with dry soup/food. If there is snow that means water is only a fire away and will give you something to do. I would have 3 fire starting sources and a stove with fuel (even my sierra zip stove).

Power bars are great, just keep one in your shorts or lose your teeth trying to eat a frozen one.

Stay hydrated. Bring decaf tea and other drinks for entertainment/hydration.
 
anomad said:
If the temperature is expected to remain freezing or below gore-tex sucks.
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Yeah, that's good point, goretex isn't so sort of ultimate allround fabric as many people seem to believe. It can be usefull but putting multiple goretex layers erverywhere is pretty useless, particularly in very cold weather, where water isn't that liquid.
 
Hey HK...

"south of the US/Canada border"

Where abouts ??

No to little snow here right now..
Possibly a little futher North in the UP there will be a good amount of snow...

To find snow right now,, I'd have to go 5-6 hours north in Canada,, and probably 2-4 hours North in MI..

ttyle

Eric...
 
Great post (#7), Jeff aka Gallowglass.

I don't see snow here in Oz, so I have no idea of camping gear or techniques for that type of climate. I have printed your post and filed it away for future reference. Working on the principle that "you can't have too much knowledge". Excellent stuff.

And, what if the pundits are wrong and Global Warming is really Global Cooling?
 
BlueyM said:
Great post (#7), Jeff aka Gallowglass.

I don't see snow here in Oz, so I have no idea of camping gear or techniques for that type of climate. I have printed your post and filed it away for future reference. Working on the principle that "you can't have too much knowledge". Excellent stuff.

And, what if the pundits are wrong and Global Warming is really Global Cooling?
Click to expand...

Oh it was "Global Cooling" -- in the late 1970's-early 1980's. A "New Ice Age" was coming due to pollution.
 
Yep, now polution leads to global warming, which leads to global cooling, which leads to the "new ice age".:confused:
 
Possibly a little futher North in the UP there will be a good amount of snow...
Click to expand...

You hit the nail on the head. Just outside of Saute St Marie, on the US side. :D

I've picked up a Gen II ECWCS parka, rated at -60, which is a bit over kill, oh well.. as long as I don't sweat, I'll be good.
I grabbed a Civ version of the ECWCS sleeping system, still three seperate bags (a big plus to me) it's still a bit heavy, but the major draw to this system is the fact that each seperate bag can be used alone, so 1-3 bags can be used anywhere from Florida to Canada.

Leather snowmobile gauntlets with 400gm of thinsulate may just do the trick for gloves. I know, mitts are better, but I'm going to give these a try.

It may not get Sub zero.. last year it was while my fiance was home for christmas.. but apparently thi year is turning out a bit warmer. Good news for me, as I can go farther, and stay out longer if it is.
 
I spend about 30 nights each winter in sub zero temps. Some tips that work for me.

Don't go alone and make others aware of your intended routes and ETA.

Pray for colder temps as its much easier to manage moisture than in slushy milder conditions.

Bring lots of socks and change them regularly, wear the damp ones between body layers to dry them out.

If there is snow consider a sled as its easier to haul heavy gear. Much easier to insulate and build a shelter with snow on the ground. A lightweight shovel is a survival tool in the winter. Carry a large 8x10 tarp at least. Bring into your sleeping bag a MARKED! nalgene pee bottle to relieve yourself and save the agony of leaving the warm bag. Put damp clothes in between your bag layers to dry overnight. Stay hydrated. Never get in your bag cold, do some pushups and chores before you go to bed so your blood is circulating. EAt fatty high protein food before retireing. COnsider a nalgene bottle with hot water in it to help warm the bag. Wrap an extra sweater around your feet and cover your head with 2 hats and use face insulation. If you wake up cold eat the chocolate bars you kept in your bag (I suggest snickers).

DO NOT! wear too many clothes to bed as this will destroy the insulative properties of your bag and lesson the dead airspace needed to keep you warm. A pair of thick fleece underwear top and bottom with thick socks should be fine. Consider some handwarmer packets to be used in your socks if needed.

Turn your water bottles upside down as the ice will not freeze the lids shut until its totally frozen.

Bring all items of gear into the shelter as when it snows you will loose gear.

Use lithium batteries or keep electronics and batteries warm as the cold kills batteries fast. Keep your water warm in your coat as its hard to drink frozen. Hydration bladders freeze up in winter rendering them useless, I use Sig metal bottles I can heat up in the fire to melt the ice. Only fill bottles 3/4 full as if they freeze full they will split and crack the lids and bottles.

A stove is a nice thing to have and no fussing with a fire to get a hot drink, do not use butane as its crap in the cold, think coleman fuel white gas stoves.

Carry 3 times the food you think you will need as in winter you need a huge amount of calories to keep the energy up, eat high fat foods. The bush in winter is no place for a diet and no place for whimpy backpacker meals (add fat to them if you must).

STAY DRY! Remove layers if sweating, no cotton!!

The biggest key to sleeping warm is the insulation under you, at least 2 feet thick of natural material minimum as it compresses overnight, the best bag in the world will not work if you are on the cold ground.

Its my expereince that people from much warmer climes suffer much worse than locals until they get used to it which takes time you dont have.

Go with a local who knows the ropes.

Take pics and have fun, the sun sets in northern latitudes much earlier than you are used to. Start thinking about the nights accomodations and firewood collecting by 2pm local time at the latest. Collect 3 times the amount of wood you think you will need and you maybe close for an all night fire (think dry hardwood logs, standing deadwood is best);) .

Have fun.


Skam
 
Plan on loosing the gun. Its Canada eh! Sell your 9mm and buy a good sleeping bag and a tent! Besides if you see a wolf sit down and be thankful your a luck son of a gun!

5000 calories a day sounds like a lot of food but if your snow shoeing you can easily burn that much. You can figure out why freeze dried is going to help! May I suggest pancakes and sausages for breakfast!

You can try a snow shelter I spent 3 great nights in one with a couple of other guys. Two candle limit inside but thats all you need to keep it a few degrees above freezing. Lots of work to build and you need wet snow or to wet snow and that means getting wet!!!! Try the shelter if you have a plan B remember you need a vent hole!!!!

Wool, wool, wool..... Wool socks, sweater and a wool hat with a pom pom its called a toque :D I like fleece pants instead of long john's under a pair of light pants under snow pants!

Dry your gear every chance you get, your sleeping bag and your snow pants, your mitts etc. On a cold crisp day the steam will rise from your gear and your all set but the days that range from above freezing to below freezing (rain) are the worst and can be deadly.

YOu can do the shelter in the backyard and then you don't have to pee in a bottle. I always get up and whiz outside never been caught in a big storm but your shelter would keep you at 32-35 degrees so a you'll warm up in your bag!
 
You would die from the cold.

Because you think you can dosnt meen you really can. If your just going to have the right stuff for the situation then its not a survival situation its just a really poorly organized camping trip.

Real men wear RedWing shoes and boots.
 
just curious HK2001, how did your trip go and did you do any winter camping. Our winter has been pretty mild so far this year in North Dakota. Needs to get colder soon, otherwise we wont get rid of any "riff raff" that moved up here this summer.
 
Didn't hav time to read the whole post but the words temps that will kill you stood out...

What is the Old 50-50-50 rule...50 degrees F....50 percent humidity....50 mile an hour wind...will kill....

Something like that....

MAybe I got it wrong...

Not trying to OT...

But in WY we take weather pretty serious...carry what we need....at all time...

ONew 4th of July weekend on the mountain...it went from about 60 degrees to Snowing...in about an hour...left an inch of snow...and cold winds...and high humidity...

Always pack for what could happen...

Sounds like you are on the right track....

Shane
 
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