Self-Defense Folder: Chinook II or 806D2?

I'd go with the 806 because it has a slightly longer blade, and the butt of the handle is pointier so that it would be "better" for an impact if needed...Also, changing grips with the 806 is more fluid. I also like the blade-shape of the 806 alot better than that of the Chinook II.

BTW...I carry a Benchmade 805 as my "defensive/offensive" EDC (the 805 is the same knife as the 806, but with 440C steel, rather than D2, and thumb-studs, rather than an opening "hole"), so I might be alittle biased towards the Benchmade.:D.
 
Here is my two cents....

I wouldn't be all that worried between the lock strength of the two models. The Chinhook II has thick dual liners, that bring it up to Spyderco's Martial Blade Craft level. Basically both models have rock solid locks. I would be more worried about some kind of debris getting in the knife handle, and prevent lockup. This is more of a concern with the Chinhook II (and all lock backs). However, this is easily solved - just inspect the knife often (which you should do on the 806, or any other knife).

The blade shape of the Chinhook II was kind of designed for fighting... Then again the AFCK, stands for Advance Folding Combat Knife.

Both knives are strong, safe, and sharp. They'll both get the job done.

I REALLY think you need to think about, "Which of the two, can I open faster?"

Hope that helps! Let us know what you pick! Or if you have any other questions.

EDIT: As it seems people aren't allowed to be human, and make typos with out annoying remarks. And especially since I was trying to be helpful.... I have edited my post.
:rolleyes:
 
Actually, the AFCK has an adjustable clip for tip up or tip down carry. The AFCK was designed for fighting, and the blade shape is very efficient for stabbing, with the tip further down (and thus more controled) than on the Chinook II. Additionally, the thin blade offset from the handle makes a very effective cutter.

I have borrowed a Chinook from a friend to try out,and it seems that the Chinook II was designed for slashing with the belly of the knife - less effective in a real world fight. If that's how you want to defend yourself, you might want a hawkbill instead, although you would sacrafice the stabbing point entirely.

Like Glockman, I have a tremendous bias towards the AFCK, but only because it is the superior knife.
 
ajnova said:
Also for your interest.... The Chinhook II can be carried tip up or down. The AFCK is tip down only.
Click to expand...

That's funny, my BM806D2 came from the factory tip up. Like the other poster said it can be converted from tip up to tip down, also left or right carry.

I'll draw against a Chinhook owner any day with my 806. While they're raising their knife up for a spidey drop I'll have my blade in their ribs.
 
The 806 is better for poking, the Chinook with its upswept tip is a nice slasher. Pick a liner lock+ brownie pop!
 
GarageBoy said:
The 806 is better for poking, the Chinook with its upswept tip is a nice slasher. Pick a liner lock+ brownie pop!
Click to expand...

I find I can open an Axis lock faster with my methods than a liner lock with the brownie pop.
 
I've seen your methods, so I do not doubt! Just giving the liner lock guys a way to match your speed, somewhat
 
Or they could get an Axis lock. :) I don't feel my opening skills are anything unique. I was doing that after a week or two of playing with my first Axis lock.
 
My 806 is tip up only, just has holes drilled for left/right carry. Wouldn't the clip get in the way of the axis lock anyway?
 
WadeF said:
That's funny, my BM806D2 came from the factory tip up. Like the other poster said it can be converted from tip up to tip down, also left or right carry.

I'll draw against a Chinhook owner any day with my 806. While they're raising their knife up for a spidey drop I'll have my blade in their ribs.
Click to expand...

That's funny, it was a typo. geez :rolleyes:


Unless it's a Waved knife... Then it be a different story........


:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
Will P. said:
Actually, the AFCK has an adjustable clip for tip up or tip down carry. The AFCK was designed for fighting, and the blade shape is very efficient for stabbing, with the tip further down (and thus more controled) than on the Chinook II. Additionally, the thin blade offset from the handle makes a very effective cutter.

I have borrowed a Chinook from a friend to try out,and it seems that the Chinook II was designed for slashing with the belly of the knife - less effective in a real world fight. If that's how you want to defend yourself, you might want a hawkbill instead, although you would sacrafice the stabbing point entirely.

Like Glockman, I have a tremendous bias towards the AFCK, but only because it is the superior knife.
Click to expand...

IIRC the AFCK was designed be Chris Caracci and means Adavanced Combat Folding Knife. A Combat Knife does not necessarily mean it is a true fighting knife, merely one of the attributes. The Chinook is designed by James Keating who needs little introduction and IMO has more of its breeding towards a true fighting knife.

BTW WillP, what is your blade discipine because as a longtime Kalis practitioner, slashing is as important as thrusting in my bladecraft. The argument over thrust and slash has been in debate for some time but I must say that those who've taken the time and studied both techniques will agree that one could not survive without the other and to rely solely on one technique is an excellent way to get yourself killed. IMO, the only debate over slash/thrust is which creates the most traumatic wound.

D13
 
I'd go with the BM 806. I own that knife and have only handled the Chinook. The AFCk is a great design, with a strong lock and the handle design with a built in pumel.

I gan get the Axis lock into play plenty fast, plus its a tip up cary knife. As for neither being "waved" I perfer my knives without a wave.
 
As far as the speed of opening issue is concerned, I've now practiced enough with my Chinook II that I can consistently open it with a flick of the wrist, as one might do with a liner lock. There is no difference in opening speed for me between my Chinook II and my 806 - the Chinook II just requires a bit more force to get the same effect. (This did take weeks of practice, though.)

Nobody has talked about the fact that the Chinook II blade was designed for backstabs. Being that I am not trained in martial bladecraft, could someone address why they feel that this is / isn't an important advantage?

From the perspective of someone who is completely untrained in these matters, the blade design of the Chinook II seems to me to be a significant advantage for two reasons:
1. It would seem to make it more difficult for an opponent to grab your arm - on one side of your knife he has to be concerned about the cutting edge, and on the other he has to worry about being stabbed with the upswept point.
I would imagine that with other blade designs an opponent could (in theory) grap your wrist behind the blade of your knife (i.e. on the dull side). With an "upswept" point, you can hook the point upwards and stab his hand / arm if he tries to do that.
2. Speed during "slashing" manuevers. With other blade designs, you need to turn your blade around after slashing in one direction before you can reverse direction. With the Chinook-style blade, if you don't have the time to do that (I know we're talking milliseconds here), you can follow up with a backstab.

To make a long story short, the "upswept point" would seem to be the next best thing to having a double-edged blade (which would be illegal in many places).

Can someone please enlighten me as to why nobody who actually knows what they are talking about has mentioned these ideas? Am I missing something?

Regards,
cds1
 
I assume you are talking about back cuts since back stabs are what your friends and lovers usually do to you! :p

I personally didn't mention it because it is a somewhat advanced technique for the everyday man. I've never taken the time to practice a back cut with a folder (with the exception of a bali) nor is it necessarily a technique I would consider with a folder for the sole reason of relying on the strength of the lock. Though there are those who would attest to its strength including MAAJAK. The back cut *IS* an awesome technique that I practice regularly with fixed blades especially my 6"+ fighters. Maybe I'll give it a try with folder other than a bali but not until I get over the thought of it closing on me.

D13
 
I would confirm this before relying on it, but I read somewhere that the lock on the Chinook II can hold 1000 lbs (and the Chinook I 700 lbs). I wish I could generate that much force, but not in this lifetime. Of course mechanical stuff can fail even when it is doing what it is rated to do. On the other hand, if I were in a knife fight, I think there would be other things I would be more worried about.

Either way, the upswept point might make someone think twice about grabbing my wrist behind the blade.
 
Both are great designs. Both were actually meant to be every day utilty blades with characteristics that would allow for self defense. Keating designed the Chinook 1 and 2 with the back cut in mind. He didn't do this thinking it would have the same effect as a 10" + bowie. His thought was more of a "sniping" defense. The lock is plenty strong to do this. I have worked the back cut on cardboard with the Chinook2 and it rips a nice chunk from the card board. It will rip an equally nice chunk of flesh. That is, if it is not covered with heavy clothing. Here's a surprise------The chinook 2 will stab or thrust quite effectively. It has a good point with plenty of belly the the leading edge. The point will penetrate and actually create a larger wound channel because of that belly. The Chinook transitions easily through any grip
and can be used for Drawpoint techniques. If you really want the straight scoop on the Chinook, ask Jim Keating himself. He is more than willing to answer your questions.

Both are excellent designs and make my top 3 list of all time favorite factory folders. Do yourself a favor and get both. If you are truly wanting to use either for SD, get training and practice.
 
Well said Dirk. If you really want a freakishly scary SD folder, have Dirk do a tip-up mod on a Cuda Maxx. He does great work! ;)

D13
 
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