Sell me on tantos

Thanks for the great replies. Love that nobody took offense to a noob q? stated a bit confrontationally and followed up with what could have been seen as argumentative.
Thanks for the link to a previous thread Lapedog.
If anybody has more links like that I sure do appreciate it.

I'm a Gemini and this is a question I certainly see both sides of. Half of my personality loves the agressive look and most knives I've edc'd have some defense oriented features. As I get into knives more, I definitely see a tanto in my future. But it seems to me that there are designs which are pretty divergent all calling themself tanto, reverse tanto, even spanto. I'm starting to sort out which might suit me.
 
Arathol said:
the blade shape is taken from a traditional form of Japanese fish knife known as edosaki, a common type of unagisaki.
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Not challenging you but I'm a bit of a geek for history and Japanese culture. I'll go off and wiki dive into that but if you have a link to your sources or more terms to google, I'd be thankful.
 
It’s not a contest

The Americanized Tanto was popularized by blade legends Phill Hartsfield and Bob Lum

HARTSFIELD


LUM


Phill’s chisel grinds and hard flat aluminum leather covered Saya’s plus his heat treat made these blades legendary

I edc’d Them for years and still do.





Today makers like Mathew Gregory and Ben Tendick are doing excellent work and keeping the Americanized Tanto/Kwaiken alive and well





A favorite of mine and one I had some influence on was the Kraken Kwaiken which featured jacked up Sori



So it’s not if modern adaptations are better ....... it’s how well the Genre carries and performs
 
Dang it Paranee, I thought you were a Bagwell man and you should know that those are kozukas ;)

Just like the bowie, it's all about size.
 
Silent H said:
You are 100% correct about this, the thick profile and large angle of the tip won't penetrate better than a dagger, say a Fairbairn-Sykes for a (slightly) modern example. I think the misconception that American tantos are good at stabbing come from videos of them being stabbed through car hoods and other things like that (I think a certain company's marketing really comes to mind here). Stabbing through sheet metal with a thin dagger is more likely to break the dagger than if you use a blade with a lot of thickness out towards the tip, like an American tanto. The main advantages of the American tanto are its tip strength and prying ability, and perhaps it is easier to manufacture in large quantities than traditional tantos (that's just a guess though).

I do like having the low secondary tip for edc chores such as opening boxes and the long straight blade is great at other tasks too. I prefer to carry a tanto blade over a wharncliffe blade, because the long edge and the secondary point can do everything a wharny can do, and the secondary tip edge can approximate a "belly" for other tasks better than a wharny can.

Then again, I just think Tantos look cool.

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I agree with this. It seems somewhere the concept that “american tanto tips are often sturdy and thus able to resist damage better when stabbing through tough materials,” has been conflated to “american tanto tips penetrate better.”

Also I find American tantos make quite good work knives. If one thinks of them as a kiridashi on the end of a wharncliffe then those are both excellent working designs.
 
I've always considered Tantos as piercing/puncturing points primarily...alliteration anyone? ;)

And as such, a concern of mine is if I want to use a blade for stabbing, chiseling, puncturing, etc. I want it to be a fixed blade with a nice guard/quillions, preferably integral.

If I'm going with a folder, I'd want a back lock also with some sort of design that limits my hand sliding forward.

So I've carried a large CS Shinobu back in the late 80's when I worked in a cabinet shop and used it to great effect for scraping pine resin, removing knots, scraping dried wood glue, popping a nail or two...and it was more often than not more easily at hand in my pocket than our old Stanley chisels that I'd have to walk across the shop and then fish thru sawdust to find :(...but I wouldn't trust a liner or framelocked tanto around my fingers with the kind of jabbing I did with that CS....that's been my experience with the tanto grind, ymmv.
 
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Lapedog said:
If one thinks of them as a kiridashi on the end of a wharncliffe then those are both excellent working designs.
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THAT answers the main thrust of my question.
Thank you!
As to the part about penetration, my experience is in a narrow niche: budget folders. So, I know HT, grip, lock, and hilt present bigger problems within my range of experience, and I so far have not worried about the tip being undamaged by stabbing (or prying.)
 
My favorite feature of tantos, whether the traditional Japanese or American, is that the yokote and secondary point formed by the two edges meeting is extremely useful for clean, straight cuts on a board (paper on a table with cardboard backing, for instance). It also works really well for opening packages/boxes with minimal risk of penetrating deeper into the box than you'd want, and thus there's no worry of damaging the contents. The Razel blade shape shines here even more than most tantos. In my experience, cutting with a curved edge does not work nearly as well for either of these specific tasks, as you won't get a straight cut on paper (or whatever other material) on a flat surface, nor will you have as much control when opening packages.

Also, I find it easier to sharpen tantos. Maybe that's just me and I'm weird.

And lastly, they just look cool. A personal favorite grind is the hollow grind that transitions to a flat grind for the secondary/tip edge.
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Luv the CS Kobun because
it fits my requirements;
and hasn't been one for any major let downs
iin functions.
IMO, a close contender in D2 Steel
would be the Maxpedition Geomatric (med).
Note that it's V ground blade and the edge
has a slight curvature unlike the "american tanto".
So a drawn downward cut would not be end too abrupt.
 
Practicoolio said:
Not the actual japanese weapon... As the grandson of a 5th degree kendoka it annoys me that Cold Steel et al use the term for a completely different concept.

Supposedly the american tanto has the advantage of a slicer that is also an extremely sturdy stabber.
I haven't yet put an american tanto through it's paces because I'm sold on the slicing ability of traditional curved shapes. I'm confident of what curves bring to the table.
I don't see the value of the subpoint: I imagine I'm familiar with what it can offer from using utility cutters with disposable blades. Am I missing something or does a subpoint do something they don't, other than being way thicker at the spine?
I also don't understand the need for more stabby sturdiness. Dagger points have been made to puncture ww2 steel helmets, clip points have been made to cut one's way through aluminum aircraft bodies. I myself have beaten the heck out of cheap drop points and spear points, including batoning and stabbing a 70s pickup door into pieces in a junkyard to get to a part inside. I've broken the tips off some knives, they were still usable and I had a lot more confidence in them once I reground them by hand into the shape they broke into. Therefore: cheap steel in a traditional shape seems stabby enough, or I can make the point stabby enough. My concern is the lock and the grip, which I have never found more suitable for stabbing than the tip of any folder I've owned.

I am not bashing tantos, except to say that american tantos are NOT traditional tantos, and the two quite different concepts deserve separate identities.

I am saying I feel confident of what I can do with traditionally curved blade shapes, and I'm asking what angular tantos can do better.
The one clear advantage I can see is in a blade long enough for a sword like slash or chop. If you're going to swing and just brush the tip of the blade against the work surface, I see a possible advantage of that angle and I see where a subpoint expands upon the usefulness of your tool. But. Realistically... Other than self defense, I cannot imagine needing *my edc* this way. I won't need my edc because I'll have a much larger heavier specialized tool. Which wouldn't have the sharply angled edge of an american tanto, because no designer that I know of deems that hard angle useful in other tools.
So for self defense? I have to ask, if the angled subpoint is superior, why didn't anyone realize that in the millenia when most warriors relied primarily on edged weapons?
If I'm going to carry a knife *for knife fighting* why is the tanto superior *for knife fighting* compared to all the other options that pop up if I google 'best self defense knife'?

Is it possibly that this is the best knife WTSHTF, if I had no other tool?
I'm ok considering that.... But my own conclusion is: EDC other tools, plus, have bugout bags nearby with my TEOTWAWKI gear. Not carry my TEOTWAWKI gear in my pocket at all times.

So that's my current thought.
Please, if you understand and like tantos, explain where I am mistaken or underinformed.
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Here's a quick easy way to see if a tanto is for you: buy one and try it out. Only YOU will be able to make the decision whether that blade shape will work for you. The rest is all noise.
 
Practicoolio said:
I'd just grind the tip in the shape it broke, still not american tanto because I'd curve it. And then I'd feel confident of what it could survive in the future. Which I've done to probably 12-15 knives, mostly with a much smaller piece of damage.
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Be that as it may, most don't want to lose a tip and be forced to grind it later back to a usable knife. The 'Murican tanto allows more steel up front at the tip before it has to taper and such (see pics posted by others here) and generally more tolerant of hard use and abuse. All designs gain something and lose something, so just depends on what properties you want from the knife. I favor tantos as hard use utility blades and don't tend to view knives as anything but secondary or even tertiary defense weapon myself, but I'm sure it would do in a pinch. If other blade configs and served you well, and your approach is to just regrind the blade if you lose a tip, then sounds like your GTG. If you're thinking maybe something less prone to losing tips and such, try a quality 'Murican style tanto and see how you like it. As with any glade design, not all tantos are created equal either. The debate should be fixed vs folder... :cool:
 
Arathol said:
https://hawatari.com/japanese-knife-types/
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I feel there is a lot of confusion as to what a chisel point is and what is a actual tanto point. Many knife makers have applied artistic interpretation to the tanto design and effectively turned it into a chisel. It looks cool but it’s not a tanto.

This link provided by Arathol shows. The long flat chisel points are used for filleting. The more tanto like pointed knives are used for deboning.
 
This is a chisel knife. It’s awesome for scraping gaskets and such.

view


It’s the closest thing to a tanto I own.

My question for those who recommend tantos because of the piercing ability. Why does it need that second tip? The point can be in the same place and not be a tanto.
 
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