Sell me on the Sebenza

[pvicenzi]

I love Sebenzas, but if you have to be talked into buying one, you probably should not buy one.

 

[chadridv]

I love Sebenzas, but if you have to be talked into buying one, you probably should not buy one.

So when you bought your first sebenza, no one or nothing convinced you it was worth spending over $300 on a knife? You just said to yourself "I like good knives, I'm gonna buy the most expensive one in the store."?

Personally, it took me years to get to the point where I was ready to commit financially to a sebenza, it took constant reading threads, looking at pictures, being talked into it, and even borrowing a friends, before I pulled the trigger. I don't have a problem answering questions and helping the OP make a tough decision.

 

[RiverRat84]

From consideration to purchase took me about a month and it only took that long because of financial reasons! But that's just my personality.

I did alot of research, looked at alot of pictures, and went through alot of post prior to pulling the trigger. I am by no means regretting my decision to buy a Sebenza. I'm over the moon about it. I've had it about two days and already know in the future i'll be getting another.

Nobody made me or convinced me. I bought one because I wanted one. At the end of the day the only person who is going to talk you into a Sebenza will be you!

Added note: some of it is dependent on prior purchases and length of interest in knives. Some people are content with buying $20-$50 knives all there life and gag at the thought of spending more than that on a single knife. Some like myself have several thousands worth in just a handful of knives and can justify it to ourselves all day long. It depends on what category you fall in. If you've been accumulating knives for decades and have never spent several hundreds of dollars on a single knife then you probably never will. If your just starting out you may eventually put $400+ down on a knife and be completely confident in your purchase. Without knowing your cutlery background or preferences it'll be hard to sell you on anything.

Ok,rant over

 

[pvicenzi]

So when you bought your first sebenza, no one or nothing convinced you it was worth spending over $300 on a knife? You just said to yourself "I like good knives, I'm gonna buy the most expensive one in the store."?

Personally, it took me years to get to the point where I was ready to commit financially to a sebenza, it took constant reading threads, looking at pictures, being talked into it, and even borrowing a friends, before I pulled the trigger. I don't have a problem answering questions and helping the OP make a tough decision.

YUP, since I was buying the knife, my decision was the only one that mattered. I'm sure that if I had any doubts when I bought that first knife, and bought it because someone else talked me into the purchase, I would have been disappointed in the knife.

 

[chadridv]

YUP, since I was buying the knife, my decision was the only one that mattered. I'm sure that if I had any doubts when I bought that first knife, and bought it because someone else talked me into the purchase, I would have been disappointed in the knife.

Well for one thing we're not talking snake oil here, we're talking about what most enthusiasts would consider the best production knife ever made, so I'm not worried about him being disappointed.

I agree with you about decision making, although I don't think the OP is confusing having his decision made for him, vs. being convinced of the value and quality of a product. He asks a very fair question, why is it worth it?

Anyway, I don't feel that by me, or anyone else putting in there two cents is somehow an effort to "talk him into anything" I have no stock in CRK.

You make it seem like you walked into a store off the street, and said give me the most expensive folder you got! No research, no knowledge base, no youtube videos or influence. You're right that is your decision how you make decisions. I personally welcome the advice and help from others. I rely on reviews, research and inquiries to buy everything. I'm thankful to be apart of a forum where someone can ask, "hey, why is this worth it?"

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Search! Current thread, top of the page in the General Knife Discussion forum: Chris Reeve Knives -what's the difference?

Having pointed that out, go right ahead, no harm in asking The Question again, it is a tribute to CRK, and every thread is a little different in emphasis.

Those who are tired of the same old same old can tell from the title not to enter the discussion.

 

[lathrop]

I don't make quick decisions either, I evolved as a knife buyer for a couple years before I considered a Sebenza. Buying knives brought me pleasure, it was a healthy indulgence and when I made it to a Sebenza I understood it was the perfect blend of simplicity, perfection and utility. So I bought more of them , found blade forums and became very comfortable with my passionate interest.

And this is a thought about Sebenzas that I love , it was posted by someone else a long time ago: In an imperfect world it feels good to carry around a piece of perfection.

 

[Rudeco]

Pretty much everyone is giving you good info.......it took me sometime.......because i did the research and i went to a local knife shop and was able to handle one. I love CRK knives even though it took me about a year to eventually buy one. I went with the Umnumzaan then the Large Sebbie, the blade will not WOW you but, once you get to handle it for a couple of months you appreciate the craftmanship. Just my opinion. Plus the Warranty is Awesome...you get to send it in to refurbish it is badass, it comes back brand spankin new!! in the long run it well worth it!! are you sold yet??? lol

 

[bamahabir]

I'll echo with what lathrop has said, for me at least to understand why the sebenza is "the sebenza" I went through the usual progression. Started with a 40$ knife (spyderco stretch), first knife ever actually, then moved up gradually to more expensive ones (paramilitary 2, barrage 585) but always found that there was something I didn't like about them whether its blade play, off centering, horrible plastic handles, bad ergos, shit pocket clip, etc.. Then the search began for the perfect knife and the sebenza has been numerously regarded as it, so I managed to get my hands on one. Was a small and I didn't like it, was too small lol imo. So I ended up getting a large and it is absolute perfection in every detail, except not polishing the lockbar/pocket clip on my snakewood, but even then I kinda like the contrast. You have to work your way up to the sebenza to understand and be ready for one, once you do you'll know you made the right decision, if you just buy one off the bat you won't really get it cause you haven't experienced the bad in the majority of knives. You'll know your ready when you want perfection, and it comes at a price. At least that's how it was for me. And has for having the same steel, well that doesn't mean much, it's all about the heat treat.

 

[marthinus]

Well, here is some food for thought, or just some good reading material regarding tight tolerances, that CRK is renowned for, locks and high dollar knives that Sal Glesser, owner of Spyderco has mentioned through the years on the forums (ps, search is your friend).

Another thing to remember is that the Manufacturing Quality award that CRK has won so many times are not chosen by a panel, it is voted for by fellow knife makers. Even Bob Dozier, a very established maker in his own right has CRK pocket knives and I love his motto of : if it feels like climbing through a barbed wire fence, there is something wrong. Slim, sleek and simple knives.

[video=youtube;nI_73zvGx5Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nI_73zvGx5Y[/video]

A few weeks back, in this thread, someone asked if there was a Spyderco which could compete with the Sebenza. Sal eventually chimed in. His post was primarily a response to someone's skepticism regarding the origins of the framelock. He noted that he had, in his personal collection, a Chris Reeve knife with an earlier lock of Chris' called the "Lock 45". He further noted that it dated back to the 1970's and was the predecessor of the Reeve Integral Lock. That lead to someone asking what it looked like, at which point he suggested sending it to me to be photographed. He also noted in a later post that it was a small knife. It arrived a couple days ago and he wasn't kidding about its size. For the benefit of those who like "dimensional data" it weighs 1.375 ounces (40 grams) has a closed length of 2 13/16" (71 mm), a blade length of 2 7/32" (57mm) with a 2 1/16" (52mm) cutting edge, and is 5/16" (8mm) thick. For those who find photographic comparisons easier to visualize, the first photo below shows it with a Kiwi and my LH Mnandi.

Beyond that, it's an intriguing design. The action is glassy smooth and the lock up is rock solid despite the fact that the blade is only supported from one side. The small thumb stud and smooth handle, thin on the off side, make it difficult to open, but might be less of a problem for someone right handed and with better motor skills. No clip, that was probably not even a gleam in Sal's eye yet. I'm assuming the handle is titanium anodized to a bronze hue but that, and any other questions regarding it would best be answered by Sal, or someone intimately familiar with Chris Reeve's early knives.

Closed, lock side:

close up, to show one of the two ball bearings:

The balls do not serve as detents, just to smooth the action. Only friction holds the blade closed.

Another close up, note the angled locking surfaces on the blade...

Lock side view, half open. You can almost see the lower ball bearing:

Top view, almost fully open:

Fully open, lock side:

Finally, the design does have one peculiarity, you can fold the blade in the wrong direction, at least until the thumb stud makes contact with the frame...

Paul

My Personal Website - - - - - - A Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting - - - - - - Kiwimania
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Spyderco Collector # 043 - - WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
It's easy to grin when your ship comes in and good fortune and fame are your lot, but the man worthwhile is the man who can smile with his shorts twsited up in a knot. - Morey Amsterdam

Well, I cannot speak for Chris Reeve Knives, but I will offer an opinion.

I've known Chris and Ann for many years. We worked together when Chris was in South Africa.

A CRK knife is not a custom knife, nor is it a production knife. They are in a class by themselves. They've taken many years to develop their reputation.

Each piece is custom made by skilled custom makers. CRK tolerances and standards are the highest I've seen in processes like surface grinding and heat treat. There is a limit to their production capacity.

Chris is pretty anal on quality. "Quality is time. = Time is money". He pays his craftsmen a fair wage, and he charges a fair margin, he gives the world a product like no other. Chris and Ann work hard and they make a good living. "Enormous profits" is an inside joke that Chris and I laugh about. Frankly, I think they'd feel guilty if they made too much money.

The "Market" will determine if his business strategies work, regardless of what they are. If they don't work, adjustments are made....that's how businesses survive.

BTW, the flip side of a "bargain driven" market is manufacturers are forced to import product (export jobs) from China to compete in the need for the "lower price". More complications.

sal

Hi Dulleddown,

More profit is usually associated with higher price. That's normal. Profit is usually a percentage of sales price. To think that a high priced auto should garner the same proft as a low priced auto is not in accord with business. It might be the same percentage, but being more expensive, it will be more profit.

Unless you are a manufacturer, familiar with close tolerance manufacturing of heat treated steel & Titanium parts, you are not likely to be able to see all of the differences between one of Chris' knives and others. For example; CRK keeps 0.0005 tolerance on surface grinding. That's one sixth the thickness of a hair. Do you have the knowledsge and equipment to discover that tolerance?

In the end, it's all about trust. CRK took many years to build and maintain their repuation. Built with consistent focus. Even those trying to make a "cheaper" version must "leave out processes" or "soften their tolerance", or they will cost as much.

Rarely do you pay for the "name". That's a bullshit sales pitch made up by the ignorant claiming to offer the same for less. Money valuation between countries might offer a "deal" for a while until the money value balances, but all in all, you will get what you pay for.

sal

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Just because you can't see the difference doesn't mean it isn't there, it just means you can't see it.

Hi GWLee,

The benefit of tight tolerances is usually for long term durability as well as smooth function. Long term durability is difficult to determine in a short term decision. That's why reputation is important.

sal

Nice video.

High dollar knives are high dollar because they cost more to make. It might be materials (Titanium, unubtanium, etc.), it might be tolerances (Chris' has lotsa zeros after the decimal before hitting numbers), it might be labor (carving, engraving, etc.).

Sometmes those differences are difficult if not impossible for even the trained eye to detenct, generally impossible for a new student.

Just because you can't see the difference, doesn't mean it isn't there, sometimes it just means you can't see it.

sal

At the same time there are many people that feel the knife is not worth it, I did until I read Sal Glesser's comments and bought one myself after 3 years of saving (the knife was later taken in a mugging) and I was UTTERLY UNDERWHELMED when I bought it, even though I handled it before hand I just felt like owning something of true quality for the first time in my life (like a good quality car/suite/watch/camera). Until I used it non stop, on the farm etc and everything just started "flowing" and making sence. I replaced the stolen knife with an Insingo. I will always have a CRK and they retail for around $625 here. They are, for me at least, worth it and my personal connection, what the Sebenza has meant in my life, makes it special for me.

I have rambled a bit, but I hope some of what I have said has helped you to form your own opinion on the matter.

 

[Davor]

I've had a small sebenza that I bought a year ago b/c of the blade, BG42. Its been a user. For $400, a large sebenza is all you really need. Simple basic engineering, looks and feels good, that can be taken apart with a small allen wrench (provided to you). The basic titanium handles will ensure you will have a knife for several years. I was sold on a simple advice, buy it and try it out. Life is too short to keep wondering if you should have bought one.

 

[snowreaper1]

I think it took me about a month or two into my knife collecting career to go all out and purchase a Sebneza. I think by that time I had a few knives in my collection
including an Emerson, Manix 2 sprint, para 1, and I just decided to sell them all to go towards a Large Micarta Sebenza. I made the hour drive to Plaza Cutlery and for the
first time was able to handle a Sebenza. Well a couple minutes was all it took until I was saying "Ill take it!!"

In retrospect I probably should have settled for a used plain jane 21 on the forums instead of going all out with the micarta and having to pay CA sales tax but there was no
way I was leaving that store without a Sebenza in my pocket.