Selling on Ebay

Guess it's my luck but I never have any luck with Ebay - everytime I've ever posted anything I usually get some know it all yahoo sending me a nasty email about how I don't know crap about what we're selling and they can buy it at the corner drug store for $5.00. Even tried selling my new video - sold two in two months! But got a lot of emails telling me they'd be glad to buy it for less than half the price...

Dan's right in part about Gib's site but not completely - Google just went through two major revisions/updates (added several more billion sites and changed their algorithim affecting page rank) and that made some big changes on where things show up now. Many pages (not just my managed sites) dropped off page one to way back aways....

And part of it is the product - just not as many folks looking for Gib's and my style of knives.
And Peter if you think Gib's situation is strange ask me how many sheaths l've sold to custom knifemakers who frequent the forums - you can count 'em on one hand. Not trying to start a flame, but if I had to depend on them to make a living I'd be on a street corner selling pencils - even when I offered a 40% discount off my base price I couldn't get 'em to bite - one reason I don't plain ordinary working sheaths much anymore. It's also why I keep making gun leather.....and thankfully have those customers that also appreciate good knife sheaths and know the value that they add to a knife.
 
I can answer that in two parts Chuck. Part of it is that I make assumptions. Maybe someday before I go to my maker, I may change that. In reading your posts it always seems like you are way back ordered. Never being one to order today what I can put off until tomorrow, I just let it ride. I for one would love one of your sheaths, in fact, I just might build a special knife for the sheath.....if that makes any sense.

The other part of the equation is that many of the better makers, make sheaths as well. I expect the newer makers feel like they can't afford it. I don't know your prices but, I expect they are a bargain for what you get.
I also can't think of any easier way to increase the value of a knife, than adding some of your leather.
 
Peter in this case the assumption is thankfully (for me and Linda anyway) true - especially since for the last two years this is our sole source of income - no outside jobs here other than some occasional website work. Also thankfully Cowboy Action Shooting is still going and growing strong, since that is our bread and butter. We are currently about six months back ordered and hopefully that will get longer - job security would be nice! ;)

I know it may sound a bit like sour grapes, but it's more a matter of frustration I guess. I've had several of the upper crust makers ask over the last two and a half yearsI've been on the forums and either never heard back or was told the price was too high (a basic working sheath can take me three to four hours to make because I fit them properly and do an inside seal that most other makers don't) - my retail price for such a sheath is $100.00 - so it's easy to figure what 60% is. The beaded and bangled, carved and inlayed sheaths are much more of course, but a good quality sheath only adds to the value. Over the past 30 some years of doing this professionally I've had some of the good ones come across my bench and I have often been aghast at the sheath that was included with the knife, even on the real high end pieces. Seems like the sheath is just a step child to the knife yet I've always maintained on a carrying piece what is the FIRST thing seen by a potential admirer.

Oh well - being down with the crud isn't helping so......
 
Maybe some guys are just afraid that the added cost of a high end sheath will put the knife out of a prospective market. They are my friends,...wrong. The sheath ADDS to the knifes value as a package and your $500 knife is now worth $600-800 as a package. Granted, putting a **** in gold foil dont make it worth it's total weight in gold.
You know what I mean.

I would much rather be making knives. I can do sheaths , but big Brudda is hard to beat.
 
There are some knives I make I would love to sell my customers on a Wild Rose sheath for, basic designs and high end. My problem is I get paid upon completion and am already back logged. So is Chuck also back logged. Put the two back logs together and that is the answer why it is difficult for me. I don't make sheaths but I need them within a couple or three weeks after I ship the knife to the sheath maker.

RL
 
The cost doesn't seem that high to me Chuck. I was at my leather store this week. I have a thing for Latigo and he had a scrap....not all that big a scrap either. He wanted $25.00 for it.

I could get maybe 2 sheaths from it so let's say $12.50 for the leather.
Thread and glue....$2.50.
It takes me forever to make a sheath so let's say 6 hours to do a decent one.

Since I don't get paid by the hour I'll do some reverse math.

Take your figure of $100.00
Less $15.00 for materials.

that leaves $85.00

If I made it in 6 hours I would be spending about $21.00 for each of my hours. That's pretty darn low pay these days and the simple truth is you don't really make that. Figure that at about $10.00 an hour after taxes and true costs.

The deal you are offering makers of 40% off is a steal in my book.
 
Rodger, one thing that would help that is to have Chuck make spec sheaths for your popular models. That's one big advantage you have now. Your designs are in demand. As long as the customer doesn't change the dimensions, you will have a WR sheath for it.

It's just like ordering 5160 in advance. You know the MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE CUSTOMERS will want the King Of Steel :footinmou and you have it in stock.
 
Wild Rose said:
Guess it's my luck but I never have any luck with Ebay - everytime I've ever posted anything I usually get some know it all yahoo sending me a nasty email about how I don't know crap about what we're selling and they can buy it at the corner drug store for $5.00. Even tried selling my new video - sold two in two months! But got a lot of emails telling me they'd be glad to buy it for less than half the price...

Dan's right in part about Gib's site but not completely - Google just went through two major revisions/updates (added several more billion sites and changed their algorithim affecting page rank) and that made some big changes on where things show up now. Many pages (not just my managed sites) dropped off page one to way back aways....

And part of it is the product - just not as many folks looking for Gib's and my style of knives.
And Peter if you think Gib's situation is strange ask me how many sheaths l've sold to custom knifemakers who frequent the forums - you can count 'em on one hand. Not trying to start a flame, but if I had to depend on them to make a living I'd be on a street corner selling pencils - even when I offered a 40% discount off my base price I couldn't get 'em to bite - one reason I don't plain ordinary working sheaths much anymore. It's also why I keep making gun leather.....and thankfully have those customers that also appreciate good knife sheaths and know the value that they add to a knife.


your right Chuck yahoo just went through the crap too back a long.
we have to change with them all the time regretfully and the customer doesn't understand that either regretfully again.

yes again I never get many sales from here but I count that is par for the course
my reasons for making my own sheaths
1 is like Roger says, time and shipping prices.. adds to the problem too.
2 would be sole authorship, and
3 it's takes me away from the knife making so it won't drive me nuts making the same thing over and over customers will look at the site and order something that I've already made. :( that's not fun for me.

it's great to have the Cowboy Action Shooting crowd Chuck
I've always maintained you can't have all your eggs in one basket,
it's going to fall and brake them all sometime and it's normally when your down the lowest when it happens.

I need to count on pass customers as well as the web. knock on wood it's been good to me..don't get me wrong guys I'm not getting rich I'm taking my time so not to get burned out .. selling other leather product,
and I'm luck the wife is working NOW.. but I got wind that because of consolidation we're not sure about next year :( and teachers don't make squat up here anyway, but it helps. :(
 
Ebay worked for me.

I listed one cheap knife at $80 buy now $110 it sold within 12 hours for the buy now price. The buyer has bought 4 better knives at better prices. A bit like going fishing a bit of berly in the water to get them in a feeding frame of mind. I still sell at far prices.

The way I started was selling letter openers very cheap. At the time the weak Aus dollar meant I could pay all the fees and still get what I was selling here for. It was fun watching the auctions. Then I realized I was spending too much time to get the same money.

I would recommend you give it a go. be prepared to get no bids some of mine did not get a bid until I re listed them. Be prepared to get burnt selling a knife too cheap. Look at what you are selling and describe it in the title as others describe theirs , throw in hand or custom made, forged. just ahve a good look before you jump. Deal with your buyer like you would if he was at your table
 
Don - the figures are about right. Nope never going to get rich doing this, but at $10.00 an hour I can't keep my head above water - even double that is cutting it close.

Actually I'm not really trolling for work myself since currently with the back order situation and the spec work on my frontier gear with Gib and Mark, which I don't find enough time to do, but it's a situation I see that may also effect the other makers who frequent here. Also I'm not saying that everybody should buy from me - good lord forbid!

I guess I see it more as a situation that could be beneficial for both parties - yes there are knifemakers like Dan who make excellent sheaths (actually Dan and I met because we had a mutual customer who wanted frontier sheaths for his Dan Gray Bowies) and even find it a nice break. But I do know many others who dislike making them or don't have the want or desire to make them and wind up sending out substandard sheaths - not necessarily badly built, but just don't "fit" - because they don't market it properly. As Mark said a well made sheath from a good maker such as myself, Treestump Leather, Sandy Morrissey, Tess Nielsen, Dave "Lifter", Gary Graley, etc ( I apologize to any I've left out) increases the value and should be/can be used as a selling point.

Again I'm not on a soap box trying to start a flame but theses thoughts are some that I've been struggling with on how to post and hopefully I'm not sticking my foot in my mouth.... :footinmou

Dan - I never have all my eggs in one basket - fortunately for me I do have a good set of past and new customers, and many new and through market research (an essential in any endeavor) tells me that there is no way the CAS crowd is going to crash anytime soon. Besides I'm going to be doing a recreation of the old Elmer Keith rig which will be a good cross seller to the hunting and outdoors man market. Making modern holsters is not a good market for me as there are just too many different firearms out there and the competition almost requires gearing up with equipment that is currently beyond my means. Most of all though I don't want to - if it comes down to having to do something that I don't enjoy than I'd rather go out and work a 40 for some one else and do "my" own thing as I see fit.
 
Roger - that of course is a bugaboo and in my case doesn't always work, but one way to do it is to sell the package - with the full understanding of the time factors involved. Also why not offer the customer the option of choosing the sheath maker, with all caveats up front about time, cost, etc.

I reckon what my thoughts are, no matter how incoherent, is about all makers, knife, sheath, etc reappraising the options that could be a benefit to all included.
 
I need to ask a quick question that's a little off topic, but not much: (I don't feel to bad about this because I just ordered a rig for my Colt SAA from Chuck after reading this thread :) Ok, I was going through an old barn in West Texs, and found a really old bottle of Listerin. It's labeled in raised letters, and even has a cork top. One problem though, it has liquid in it. Listerin? Maybe, maybe not. How should I list this guys (what areas, etc), and how should I handle the liquid issue (if it is 100 year old listerin, could it be worth something?)? Thanks for letting me butt in with this.
 
Well Golllllleeee as Gomer used to say - other than all I can say is thanks Robert (I really wasn't trolling for work guys ummmhh especially the Mods - as noted this is a subject I've been dwelling on about how to get all types of makers together to make a superior product - on the other hand I sure won't turn it down.)
 
Thanks Trick! You've given me enough info so that I've decided to just gargle with it :o) Chuck, your welcome (if you do as good a job on the leather as you do on my site, it'll be a great rig!)
 
Dan, Thanks for the input, Chuck and I will have to look into this problem I guess we just need to keep changing with the search engines.
However I have been plaged with poor sales from the time I started.
Gib
 
Gib Guignard said:
Dan, Thanks for the input, Chuck and I will have to look into this problem I guess we just need to keep changing with the search engines.
However I have been plaged with poor sales from the time I started.
Gib

selling from the start is where we all had a problem I'm sure .
like I said and Chuck said you need customers looking for what you do also,
more hunters looking for hunting knives than Bowies it's just a fact of life.
I just want to help here not hinder
I don't want any of you feel I'm blasting anyone or hyping up myself I don't want more web work
and I'm not looking for more,,, I do this only to keep up to speed with my own sites and in the beginning it was to prove a point
to a few guys around here toying with web site problems...
.I'm just passing on
some of my experience that may help anyone interested.
I've seen
to many guys give up on the web just because of this same thing not listing well.
there's a big difference in the way it looks,
versa the way it works.(under the hood )

I have some sites out there that I don't have to change a thing to,
even through years of engine/ dir changes, and in turn
I've had some that need to be changed as times change :confused:

if you lookup "black bear hunting maine" on yahoo troys site (one that I do) is #4 I changed my e-mail on it the last time of change and a price or two on occasion gets changed on this site and that's it for the last 7 years :eek: it always hovers on the first page ..
as it does on Google ( it would be great to use one key word and you list on top but we all can't be on top with that one word,
only the 100% word search related pages could do this but won't because who wants every word in the site saying KNIVES ?,
with no links or pictures,, so on..

one of my other sites for wallets, just type in "biker wallets" in yahoo ,,
now this is on page two #16 ( which is not real bad) I'm chasing this site all the time but on Google
It stays #1 and #2 most of the time. so.. where it lists well here
I won't change it much to try and suit it to other directories, I wouldn't want to mess it up there..
so I'd use another new page and tweak it out for others to spider that new page with different Meta tag to page relativity criteria.

same as "deer hunting maine" on both at..#1 and #4

look up "custom made knives " on both
and "custom made wallets"
the tags,, type of tags and where they are and how they pertain to that page is key,,
and it has some to do with how long the sites been up also..
.it seems that some of the old pages that listed well years ago get grandfathered some how or way??

I will say the faster it loads the better, and the less java and hoopla the better. though it makes for a great look and feel, the spiders don't like them,
they want ( especially the hand edited directories like Yahoo) good informational unique interesting stuff that there don't seam to be a lot of , like on a hunting site, text saying albino Moose harvested only one in 2002 or trophy black bear over 500 pounds.
pages that will catch one eye but still is with-in their criteria
reciprocal links to top ranking site are key also.. a links page.

for those that don't know how your site looks like in html code..
go to anyone's site using I/explorer
click the view button on top of your screen then push the source button in the drop down box,
this is under the hood ,, there it's supped up or blown up.. :)
 
People are just looking for a good deal on eBay. It's the same as finding a knife at a flea or farmers market, you want it at a good price. I've started to find out that going with reputable companies online is better, you don't have to worry about your knife never showing up. That said, I have a lot of knives for sale up on eBay :D !
 
Y'know, your son should just go out and get into the job market, he can get a job working retail etc, something where he will be interacting with the public. It would be good for him and would help him develop intrapersonal skills. I sell stuff on the side on eBay to support my collecting, but I don't think I could make enough money to really do anything else. I don't even think he could get enough to buy a used car!
 
Dan - no skin off my nose - I'm always learning too. In fact you mention reciprocal links - like all things their value changes....
Improving Link Popularity
Dr. Ralph F. Wilson
http://www.wilsonweb.com

"We all know the value of link popularity to increase search engine
rankings. Recently I had two people do nothing but place ads on free
ad sites, with links to my sites, yet weeks--if not months--later
none of the links show up in a link check using Google. Was this all
wasted time? Help!

Adding links one at a time by trading with other siteowners is time
intensive, and I have been told by 'authoritative figures' that
reciprocal links are less valued these days and that 'one way' links
have much higher value. Is there a better, easier way to get links?
I see some products that offer thousands of links for a fee though
I smell something fishy there." -- Ed Strachar, GeniusZone.com

Google looks for sites with good content to index. It can spot free
ad sites for what they are -- a way to manipulate search engine
rankings -- and usually skips them entirely, so it's a waste of
time to use them. In fact, links from your site to obvious "link
farms" could hurt you.

Getting links from other sites is time intensive. Some Search Engine
Optimization (SEO) firms have gotten clients in trouble by taking
the shortcut of interlinking all the diverse sites they manage. Here
are my recommendations for getting links to your site:

1. Personally contact webmasters of complementary sites by e-mail or
phone to ask for a reciprocal link. Make sure these sites have some
relation to your type of site--or you might just get dumped into
what amounts to a private link farm which Google will scorn.
Reciprocal links are labor intensive, but still helpful. Unless the
site linking to you has a high PageRank itself, however, it won't
help your own PageRank as much as a more prominent site
(www.google.com/technology).

2. Get links from major directories with a high PageRank, such as
Open Directory Project (www.dmoz.com) and perhaps paid directories
such as Yahoo! Express (https://ecom.yahoo.com/dir/express/intro/)
and Business.com

3. Place news releases containing links to your site. I've recently
partnered with PRWeb Direct (wilsonweb.prwebdirect.com) to offer
affordable press release placement services to help in this regard.
News releases may show up temporarily on Yahoo and Google News and
(hopefully) will be archived long term on some news sites with a
relatively high PageRank.

4. Write free articles that supply content for other websites and
include a link back to your website. Look at the syndication section
of my site to see how I do this (www.wilsonweb.com/syndicate/).

5. Contribute to online forums that allow a "signature" that
includes a hyperlink to your website.

6. Offer a "major award" logo to complementary websites that
include a link back to your site (with appropriate keywords in the
ALT element of the IMG tag). What webmaster struggling for
recognition of his efforts can resist your "Best Silver Jewelry Site
of the Week" award?

7. Pay an SEO firm to find you links. The price range for obtaining
legitimate reciprocal links is about $30-$50 per link. The best
firms don't use tricks but spend the time to do it right.


Where you can specify the exact link to your site, strategically
hyperlink keywords that will help you rank higher where you most
need it. For example, instead of hyperlinking the words "Wilson
Internet Services" (who would search for "Wilson" or "Internet" or
"Services"), I prefer a link to my "E-Mail Marketing Handbook"
(www.wilsonweb.com/ebooks/handbook.htm) or "Web Marketing Today"
(www.wilsonweb.com), which will help me rank higher for the
important keywords "e-mail marketing" and "Web marketing." (By the
way, you could do me a big favor by linking to me from your site,
though I can't offer you a reciprocal link.)

As always page ranking is also a bit of mystery: you mention taking a look at the source code - well when using your search parameter of "custom made knives" on google - the top four sites on Google and their meta tags/keywords are:

http://www.sunrisecustomknives.com/
<title>Sunrise River Custom Knives and Handemade Cutlery</title>
<meta name="description" content="Custom made knives, handmade cutlery, bowie knives, tactical knife, survival knives, combat knife, utility knives, knife repair,chef's cutlery, fixed blade knives, full tang, custom cutlery, built one at a time to be strong and functional, and with reasonable care will last a lifetime. This web site will acquaint you with the many varieties of blades.">
<meta name="keywords" content="custom made knives,handmade cutlery,bowie knife,tactical knives,survival knives,combat knife,utility knives,knife repair,fixed blade knives,full tang,custom cutlery,cutlery,knives,knife sheaths,benchmade">

http://home.earthlink.net/~donwrobinson/
No meta tags/keywords

http://www.bladesmith.com/
<title>George's Custom Made Knives Home Page</title>

<meta NAME="keywords" CONTENT="CUSTOM KNIVES, KNIFEMAKERS' GUILD, KNIVES, FOLDERS, BLADESMITH, HANDMADE KNIVES, Cutlery, Damascus Steel, Knife, Knifemaker, Forge, Forged, Bowie,Tactical, Custom, Bladesmith">

<meta NAME="Version" CONTENT="8.0.3410">

<meta NAME="Date" CONTENT="10/11/96">

<meta NAME="Description" CONTENT="CUSTOM KNIVES, KNIFEMAKERS' GUILD, KNIVES, FOLDERS, BLADESMITH, HANDMADE KNIVES, Cutlery, Damascus Steel, Knife, Knifemaker, Forge, Forged, Bowie,Tactical, Custom, Bladesmith">

<meta NAME="Classification" CONTENT="CUSTOM KNIVES, KNIFEMAKERS' GUILD, KNIVES, FOLDERS, BLADESMITH, HANDMADE KNIVES, Cutlery, Damascus Steel, Knife, Knifemaker, Forge, Forged, Bowie,Tactical, Custom, Bladesmith">

<meta NAME="Template" CONTENT="images\HTML.DOT">

and ta! Da! Dan's site - http://www.kynd.com/~graydg/kniveslist4.html

<TITLE>Gray Knives, Hand Made Custom Knives, Offering a complete line of fixed blade, custom cutlery, built one at a time strong and functional offering custom hand made Knife sheaths, custom ivory folders, and custom Knife Makers web pages, hunting knives in damascus knife blades, custom knife makers, www. grayknives.com</TITLE>
<META NAME="description" CONTENT="Gray Knives Offering a complete line of fixed blade, custom cutlery, built one at a time strong and functional, This web site will show you the many varieties of blades I make, from exotic hard woods and horns to Ivorys I use for handles, and different styles of my custom sheaths">
<META NAME="keywords" content="custom knives,custom hand made knives,Knifes sheaths,ivory folders,custom Knife Makers,hunting knives,damascus knife blades,custom knife makers,www.grayknives.com,tree stump leather,sheath,maine made blades,art knives,holsters,knifes,knife handle indian stag,wild rose trading co,tree stump leather,Gray knives">

Now a couple of three things of real interest -
1) Sites 1 and 2 both use a fair amount of javascript and site one is written using CSS, often reported to be cross browser unfriendly/finicky. Javascript menus are a bit finicky for the spiders, but there is an easy fix - an html site map which lists all pages you wish to be spidered - spiders love em because it's sort of a one stop shopping scenario for them.

3) Real Interesting is the fact that site #2 has NO keywords or meta tags

4) Also of interest is that site #2 and site #4 are sub- domains - something often touted as being not good for search engines, especially "free sites" such as the earthlink sub domain for #2.

5) On all these sites in Google - the
Some thoughts to cogitate on - as for search parameters, it's up in the air - i.e. if some one is looking for Bowies for instance is he going to necessarily use custom made knives as a parameter.

On all these sites the page title and the unencumbered text (text not surrounded by a table) seem to be the weigthing factors more than the keywords, especially as regards site #2.

like I said and Chuck said you need customers looking for what you do also, more hunters looking for hunting knives than Bowies it's just a fact of life.
True but the competition not only from other custom makers but from the commercial makers is also much greater so it isn't just a matter of percentages. It's a fact of marketing that one can't be and shouldn't be all things to all people, so find your niche and go for it. In some ways it makes marketing more difficult but on the other hand learn your market and work it will pay dividends in the long run. In my case for instance the only way to compete with the commercial makers would be to gear up with all the tooling and mass produce - something that would then just turn me into another maker which is not what I want so...... Of course we all approach this differently and thank the Good Lord for that cause otherwise it would be boring as heck......
 
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