Send back for Warranty or ignore it ? - Part 2 - the return of the bad grind.

Dan of Bazz Clazz

Dan of Bazz Clazz

Joined
May 10, 2017
Messages
736
Looking for Knife Knut viewpoints.

So this is a bit hard for me to believe, but I'm still dealing with the same knife and manufacturer that I was asking for advice on over a month ago in what turned out to be part one of this saga.

Quick summary:
Bought a new knife, had crappy incomplete grind on one side at the heel. Basically only got a chisel grind at that end.

Sent it back first to the dealer, and then to the manufacturer. (Long story there too.)
Asked the manufacturer to inspect the replacement knife for defects before shipping it back to me.

This is what I got back. Grind is far worse than the knife I returned. It is not just that the grind at the tip and belly are uneven. The tip / belly on one side has a double grind, Ground at one angle, and then a second pass at a different angle. Almost like they were trying to make a convex grind. But trust me, my convex grind knives from Opinel and Bark River, far sharper than this thing.

It's not that it won't cut paper, this can hardly cut gravy.

Here are photos of the latest knife. What say you?

Does this warrant getting sent back or am I being too picky and dwelling on the slightest flaws given the previous history I have had with this knife. The manufacturer has had a checkered past regarding quality according to numerous posts on BF. I have maybe 15 of their knives, most are fixed blade hunting knives and have always had great service and almost zero complaints about QC. But this one is showing me what others may have been talking about.

Let me know what you would do if you received a new knife that came like this.


Opposite sides of the same knife

Dano_Tip_Grind.jpg



Both sides of the same knife for the full edge. Note the 2 level grind on one side. Sorry for the vertical placement. BF is doing it.

Dano_Edge_Grind.jpg


Close up of 2 angle grind. One pass falls way short of the apex. Quite frankly, not sure if the grinds on either side actually formed an apex.

Dano_dual_grind_on_tip.jpg
 
Maybe I overlooked it but it depends on the price of the knife. $100 or less Id say just take care of it yourself. 100-200 id probably just send it to a professional to get reground. $200+ id return it if it had flaws that left me unhappy.

Generally though the edge is easy to fix and relatively cheap to get a professional to regrind it perfectly. Ive only ever returned knives for major issues.
 
I am old enough to remember the old axiom about being responsible for yourself, and in this case to make sure that you get what you pay for.

Likewise I am old enough not to put up with crap I don't like. The more people put up with crappy work the greater the signal is to the manufacturers that it's just fine to do it.

I don't understand the sentiment of sound on this group. I have read some brand fanboys justify poor grinds by writing "they leave it that way on purpose because they know you're going to grinding sharpen it the way you want anyway when you get it".

????

Bullcrap.

One of the great things that age has given me is the perspective to be able to put something like that back in the box, send it back for a refund, and accept the fact it wasn't what I wanted. Then I am done with it and I don't labor over something like the grind on a knife for a couple of months.

Other fish to fry in my life these days. There are too many well made, high-quality knives out there at very affordable prices to put up with repairing a knife that you bought brand new. If I wanted a knife that I had to regrind, or work on it in any other way to bring it up to factory specs, I would buy a knife kit and build it myself from scratch. I stop at sharpening as I have been sharpening factory knives to my spec ever since I started buying them. Anything else, back to the vendor it goes for a refund. I don't have the time or inclination to tolerate sending in a brand spanking new knife anywhere for warranty work with a letter explaining their shortcomings, phone calls, and then wait 6 weeks to get the knife back simply to correct poor quality control on their end. I have a job, and quality control for a knife manufacturer and its distributors isn't it.

I don't expect perfection and certainly some of my knives have their own "personality traits". But in the case of the poor grinds that are shown in the pictures, that's nothing more than just crappy work. Shouldn't be tolerated, and it shouldn't be your issue to correct when you purchase a brand new item. Send it back to the vendor and let him deal with the poor quality product he sold you. Get your money back and buy from a vendor that will make sure you get what you are paying for.

Robert
 
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Personally, if I am not happy with the item I bought I would be sending it back pronto. Get your money back or have them fix the issue. Done.
 
I agree that the grind isn’t good. But I reprofile the secondary bevel on pretty much 100% of the knives I buy, so it wouldn’t matter much to me, even if it was perfect. A DMT XXC will make short work of that.
 
It looks like they also messed up the swedge... Looks like a clear case of "don't care". Ask a refund and move on to another brand. There are plenty who care about their customers and are committed to making a fine product.
 
I recently went through a similar situation with a new knife from an authorized vendor. I returned it to the vendor right away and got a credit for it. Your sad story of getting an unacceptable problem worsened before they returned it to you tells me I handled my badly flawed knife problem the right way.
 
stonproject said:
Maybe I overlooked it but it depends on the price of the knife. $100 or less Id say just take care of it yourself. 100-200 id probably just send it to a professional to get reground. $200+ id return it if it had flaws that left me unhappy.

Generally though the edge is easy to fix and relatively cheap to get a professional to regrind it perfectly. Ive only ever returned knives for major issues.
Click to expand...
I’m sorry, but a $100 - $200 production knife should have a near perfect blade and edge grind from the factory. Having to pay a professional to regrind the blade of a new knife in that price range is unacceptable. Doing so just reinforces that it’s okay for the manufacturers to continue producing poor quality products. Just slap your logo on any piece of crap and we’ll keep on buying them.

The manufacturers should hire the professionals you mentioned and pay them to get it right the first time.

Reprofiling a perfectly sharp and even factory edge to your desired angle or polish level is a different story and pretty typical of a knife nut.

I think the OP should send the knife back. Lots of great blades with near perfect workmanship to pick from these days.
 
I buy knives that are reasonable quality, but I since can't afford perfection, I have to overlook some details. If I liked everything else about the knife, I would use it until it needed sharpening and then grind it to my liking. You asked what we would do, so I answered. I'm not trying to influence anybody's decision.
 
I received a fixed blade that had very steep bevels and no apex. I waited weeks to get the damn knife and didn't want to go through hassle of sending it back so I hand ground it to an apex myself on a DMT plate and jig.
fVnpaVD.jpg
 
stonproject said:
Maybe I overlooked it but it depends on the price of the knife. $100 or less Id say just take care of it yourself. 100-200 id probably just send it to a professional to get reground. $200+ id return it if it had flaws that left me unhappy.

Generally though the edge is easy to fix and relatively cheap to get a professional to regrind it perfectly. Ive only ever returned knives for major issues.
Click to expand...
I must respectfully disagree.
When I buy a knife or whatever regardless of the price, I expect to be able to use it when I take it out of the packaging.
If I can't use it out of the package, what good is it?

My most expensive knife is a SK Blades Lil' Jack Buck 112 that cost $69.
Next most expensive are a Buck 301 Stockman, and an SK Blades "Smoke Jumper" Buck 110LT, both just under $40 each.
At the $30 price range I have a couple nothing special Buck 110's and an Ontario RAT 1 (Aus 8 blade version, not the D2) from Wally World.
Every other knife I own is a Rough Rider, Old Timer, Rite Edge, Colt, Marbles, Sarge, Böker "Magnum" or "Plus", etc.
All were under $20. Most were in the $8 to $15 range.
Not one of my knives came with a bad edge, bad fit and finish, blade wobble, or a blade hitting the liner.
If Rough Rider can build a two bladed knife with no defects and both blades have even grinds, and sell it at a profit for $8 shipped ... Why can't the manufacturer of a knife that costs $100 and more do it?!?

Why pay a premium for a name when a Rough Rider meets or exceeds the quality of the "big name" knife, will last just as long, if not longer, and has a lifetime warranty, to boot?

A knife is a tool.
Why buy Snap-On or Mac and pay a premium for the name, when a Huskey from Home Depot and whatever brand Walmart is using on their tools now, works just as well, and has the same lifetime warranty as Snap-On and Mac?

My Great Grandfather, (1881-1973) who was a practical man, taught me you don't have to pay a premium to get premium products.
He drove a 4 door 1948 or 1949 or 1950 Ford sedan (I never could tell them apart just by looking. I think it was a '48) from new to at least 1968. He drove a Rambler station wagon after that until he passed.
I don't know who made his wheelchair.
His main knife was a Ulster Stockman, and a pipe smoker's knife, the brand of which I never knew.
He also had some of those Prince Edward knives you mailed a dollar or along with a coupon that was in the can for the knife.
No idea who got them.
The Ulster is probably in his pocket. Family Tradition is/was to put their favorite pocket knife in their pocket "so they can take it with them."

His tractor was an International.

His shotgun was an H&R break open single shot 12 gauge, that he kept in the barn, and used for fox/wolf, crow, upland game and deer. (Iowa did/does not allow a centerfire rifle for deer) As far as I know, one of his great-great or great-great-great grand kids is still using that shotgun.

Most of his clothes and boots came from Sears and/or Montgomery Wards.

In short, he never bought anything for "snob appeal" but everything he owned was durable, long lasting, and high quality.
 
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Unacceptable. At any price point.
Lazy work, poor QC and CS. Why are we not saying the MFR? Because we all already know? Or we don’t want to rustle the fanboys?
 
LOL it looks like one of my first knife sharpening attempts, send it back so you don't encourage them to produce more poor quality blades
 
If I’m not happy with the grind on a knife I bought, I’ll send it back immediately for a full refund. My question is, why didn’t you do this in the first place? If I get a bad grind but don’t care, I’ll fix it myself. Both instances have happened, and I was happy with the result. Nobody should spend more time than it takes to do either, than it takes to reprofile a knife.
 
If you're unhappy with it, that's all that matters. You don't really need any more justification than that.
 
afishhunter said:
I must respectfully disagree.
When I buy a knife or whatever regardless of the price, I expect to be able to use it when I take it out of the packaging.
If I can't use it out of the package, what good is it?

My most expensive knife is a SK Blades Lil' Jack Buck 112 that cost $69.
Next most expensive are a Buck 301 Stockman, and an SK Blades "Smoke Jumper" Buck 110LT, both just under $40 each.
At the $30 price range I have a couple nothing special Buck 110's and an Ontario RAT 1 (Aus 8 blade version, not the D2) from Wally World.
Every other knife I own is a Rough Rider, Old Timer, Rite Edge, Colt, Marbles, Sarge, Böker "Magnum" or "Plus", etc.
All were under $20. Most were in the $8 to $15 range.
Not one of my knives came with a bad edge, bad fit and finish, blade wobble, or a blade hitting the liner.
If Rough Rider can build a two bladed knife with no defects and both blades have even grinds, and sell it at a profit for $8 shipped ... Why can't the manufacturer of a knife that costs $100 and more do it?!?

Why pay a premium for a name when a Rough Rider meets or exceeds the quality of the "big name" knife, will last just as long, if not longer, and has a lifetime warranty, to boot?

A knife is a tool.
Why buy Snap-On or Mac and pay a premium for the name, when a Huskey from Home Depot and whatever brand Walmart is using on their tools now, works just as well, and has the same lifetime warranty as Snap-On and Mac?

My Great Grandfather, (1881-1973) who was a practical man, taught me you don't have to pay a premium to get premium products.
He drove a 4 door 1948 or 1949 or 1950 Ford sedan (I never could tell them apart just by looking. I think it was a '48) from new to at least 1968. He drove a Rambler station wagon after that until he passed.
I don't know who made his wheelchair.
His main knife was a Ulster Stockman, and a pipe smoker's knife, the brand of which I never knew.
He also had some of those Prince Edward knives you mailed a dollar or along with a coupon that was in the can for the knife.
No idea who got them.
The Ulster is probably in his pocket. Family Tradition is/was to put their favorite pocket knife in their pocket "so they can take it with them."

His tractor was an International.

His shotgun was an H&R break open single shot 12 gauge, that he kept in the barn, and used for fox/wolf, crow, upland game and deer. (Iowa did/does not allow a centerfire rifle for deer) As far as I know, one of his great-great or great-great-great grand kids is still using that shotgun.

Most of his clothes and boots came from Sears and/or Montgomery Wards.

In short, he never bought anything for "snob appeal" but everything he owned was durable, long lasting, and high quality.
Click to expand...


Nice story, but it's completely irrelevant when applied to today's world.
All this story tells me is what I already know...... "They don't build 'em like they used to"
A generic Ford built in the 40's was built to last. A modern generic Ford is built to last... until the warranty is up.

I've owned some of those knives in the past and got rid of every one (except the RAT1. Value there is inarguable). Yes, they worked, but you get what you pay for. poor fit & finish, poor action, and quite plain looking. If that makes me a snob than so be it.
 
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