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Serious about becoming a bladesmith
- Thread starter PlayMaker
- Start date
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2007
- Messages
- 101
Keep your day job or have a working spouse.
Welcome to the club.
Gene C.
Welcome to the club.
Gene C.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2005
- Messages
- 710
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2006
- Messages
- 3,953
Here's how I learned to forge....
buy books and magazines read all you can, think to yourself, that looks easy
draw and sketch your dream knives
get a nice charcoal barbeque going, drop some of the hot coal in your boot in your glove, singe the hair off of your arm and face.
put a piece of mild steel in the barbeque fire, let it get nice and hot and drop it in a bucket of pond water while you look into the bucket.
drop a pair of pliers into that bucket and reach in after it.
get a hammer and a piece of random steel and beat on it for hours.
you make it through all that you may be a bladesmith after all.
Seriously though, get some books I liked the $50 knife shop by Goddard, read the forums, look around for a smith nearby to talk to and maybe he'll let you in his shop. Build whatever forge you can afford and order a lot of steel and get to whomping.
Good luck and welcome to this horrible addiction.
Will
Formerly known as Badbamaump
buy books and magazines read all you can, think to yourself, that looks easy
draw and sketch your dream knives
get a nice charcoal barbeque going, drop some of the hot coal in your boot in your glove, singe the hair off of your arm and face.
put a piece of mild steel in the barbeque fire, let it get nice and hot and drop it in a bucket of pond water while you look into the bucket.
drop a pair of pliers into that bucket and reach in after it.
get a hammer and a piece of random steel and beat on it for hours.
you make it through all that you may be a bladesmith after all.
Seriously though, get some books I liked the $50 knife shop by Goddard, read the forums, look around for a smith nearby to talk to and maybe he'll let you in his shop. Build whatever forge you can afford and order a lot of steel and get to whomping.
Good luck and welcome to this horrible addiction.
Will
Formerly known as Badbamaump
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2003
- Messages
- 2,361
After all my years of doing it and observing, if I were to give advise on it I would break it down into two camps- being a bladesmith, or becoming a BLADESMITH.
If you want to become a bladesmith, i.e. a guy who makes really good tools while even being an artist at it, I would study the historical methods of doing it, not the theories just the methods. Study other forms of metalworking artistry, with special attention to jewelry and the like. I would hang around blacksmiths and learn all the hammer techniques I could while ignoring their temperatures and anything said about heat treating. I would buy a good grinder and learn how to use it well before even picking up a hammer. Most importantly I would learn about the metal! Research its properties and how it was meant to be worked, by the people who make the stuff.
I would heat my shop with just about every book or magazine written for knifemakers, (yes burn them, if this is too shocking skip to BLADESMITH. below). The only exception to this would perhaps be the “Knives”, annuals but not because it is better but, because of the shear volume of images required, it may include some work by other good bladesmiths, and their contact information (I use mine as handy phonebooks). When you see work that you really like that you may want to emulate, check the name on it, if it is one you have seldom heard or seen plastered on covers, find the guy he may actually know what he is doing.
Finding a sugar mama is pretty good advise for this path as since you said “serious” not hobbyist or just for fun, be prepared to be very poor for some time. What real professional do you know that doesn’t have the best tools he can get? For the critical jobs get the best tools to do them. Hair driers and charcoal grills are fine to dip your toe in and test the waters, but since you said “serious” I will assume we have advanced beyond that. No offense meant Will, as you said that is how you got started.
I also doubt that Stradivarius got a name by scavenging old lutes, mandolins or boat hulls for his materials, he no doubt hand picked the best woods he could find and was very particular about what exact wood they were. I doubt the engineers and mechanics at Porsche are using parts they found in a dumpster or a ditch. Once again you did say “serious”.
Now if you want to be a BLADESMITH., you will need to change your focus from actual artistry and metalworking and more towards being a businessman, and marketing. Get all the knifemaking magazines and books you can and study the methods of other great BLADESMITHS., not how they make knives
, but how they present themselves, what rags do they throw the maximum advertising dollars at (not to get business but to buy future articles) and what current hot trends to they pander to in their designs and materials. Look for the guys who have all the headlines and awards and follow them around the shows and learn the right hands to shake and the right posteriors to pucker up for (also get their brand of lip balm as there will be a lot of this). Heck pay attention to the presidential races as political savvy will be handier than a hammer in your pursuits.
For this path forget the sugar mama, you will need a sugar daddy! Well actually I recently described it more accurately in a talk by another term. Find the folks who for the right cut will take care of you, make you a star and send the business your way, and get you awards. In Hollywood they would be called “agents” in cities nearer to me they are that other term. I guess if you take stone tools into consideration bladesmithing could be the “oldest profession”
Find a little tin god with a mass of toadies climbing on each other to be seen with him and copy his knives, climb inside his skin of you can. Hang out at his shop, heck live at his shop (but more importantly at his show table) use his tools if he has any decent ones, and ride his name to the top!
Always be looking for an angle or a gimmick, to make you or your knives bigger than life. If you can stomach it, make stuff up and mislead, deceit appears to be the best lubricant for the public’s purse strings.
I could go on much longer but as you can see I present two different paths that came to mind when you said serious, and I assumed you got your fires lit perhaps at a show or reading one of the fine knife publications. One path will get you well known, financially viable and … well I guess successful in a business sense. The other will keep your hands busy, your feet on the ground and desperately poor, but you will have your pride and the knowledge that you are a bladesmith who’s hands can indeed practice that ancient and noble art. This may all seem a bit cynical, that’s fine I have been called that enough to embrace the label, but this is how I see it after all my years in this business.
Oh and in case you wonder about the path I chose… I need to go cut some wood now because it is cold in MI and I cannot afford the heating bill.
If you want to become a bladesmith, i.e. a guy who makes really good tools while even being an artist at it, I would study the historical methods of doing it, not the theories just the methods. Study other forms of metalworking artistry, with special attention to jewelry and the like. I would hang around blacksmiths and learn all the hammer techniques I could while ignoring their temperatures and anything said about heat treating. I would buy a good grinder and learn how to use it well before even picking up a hammer. Most importantly I would learn about the metal! Research its properties and how it was meant to be worked, by the people who make the stuff.
I would heat my shop with just about every book or magazine written for knifemakers, (yes burn them, if this is too shocking skip to BLADESMITH. below). The only exception to this would perhaps be the “Knives”, annuals but not because it is better but, because of the shear volume of images required, it may include some work by other good bladesmiths, and their contact information (I use mine as handy phonebooks). When you see work that you really like that you may want to emulate, check the name on it, if it is one you have seldom heard or seen plastered on covers, find the guy he may actually know what he is doing.
Finding a sugar mama is pretty good advise for this path as since you said “serious” not hobbyist or just for fun, be prepared to be very poor for some time. What real professional do you know that doesn’t have the best tools he can get? For the critical jobs get the best tools to do them. Hair driers and charcoal grills are fine to dip your toe in and test the waters, but since you said “serious” I will assume we have advanced beyond that. No offense meant Will, as you said that is how you got started.
I also doubt that Stradivarius got a name by scavenging old lutes, mandolins or boat hulls for his materials, he no doubt hand picked the best woods he could find and was very particular about what exact wood they were. I doubt the engineers and mechanics at Porsche are using parts they found in a dumpster or a ditch. Once again you did say “serious”.
Now if you want to be a BLADESMITH., you will need to change your focus from actual artistry and metalworking and more towards being a businessman, and marketing. Get all the knifemaking magazines and books you can and study the methods of other great BLADESMITHS., not how they make knives
, but how they present themselves, what rags do they throw the maximum advertising dollars at (not to get business but to buy future articles) and what current hot trends to they pander to in their designs and materials. Look for the guys who have all the headlines and awards and follow them around the shows and learn the right hands to shake and the right posteriors to pucker up for (also get their brand of lip balm as there will be a lot of this). Heck pay attention to the presidential races as political savvy will be handier than a hammer in your pursuits. For this path forget the sugar mama, you will need a sugar daddy! Well actually I recently described it more accurately in a talk by another term. Find the folks who for the right cut will take care of you, make you a star and send the business your way, and get you awards. In Hollywood they would be called “agents” in cities nearer to me they are that other term. I guess if you take stone tools into consideration bladesmithing could be the “oldest profession”
Find a little tin god with a mass of toadies climbing on each other to be seen with him and copy his knives, climb inside his skin of you can. Hang out at his shop, heck live at his shop (but more importantly at his show table) use his tools if he has any decent ones, and ride his name to the top!
Always be looking for an angle or a gimmick, to make you or your knives bigger than life. If you can stomach it, make stuff up and mislead, deceit appears to be the best lubricant for the public’s purse strings.
I could go on much longer but as you can see I present two different paths that came to mind when you said serious, and I assumed you got your fires lit perhaps at a show or reading one of the fine knife publications. One path will get you well known, financially viable and … well I guess successful in a business sense. The other will keep your hands busy, your feet on the ground and desperately poor, but you will have your pride and the knowledge that you are a bladesmith who’s hands can indeed practice that ancient and noble art. This may all seem a bit cynical, that’s fine I have been called that enough to embrace the label, but this is how I see it after all my years in this business.
Oh and in case you wonder about the path I chose… I need to go cut some wood now because it is cold in MI and I cannot afford the heating bill.
Mark Williams
Moderator
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2000
- Messages
- 4,760
Such as "Super-duper-high-performance" You can use that one if you want.
Great post Kevin. But that's what I've come to expect.
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2004
- Messages
- 3,041
Buy a book on patience, take out a loan, and get some steel and start reading every post on this forum.
Theres a point when you can be too prepared and not yet ready. Start simple and cheap, and let all the details fill themselves in...you dont need to learn the intricacies of different metal structures during HT until you can at least harden a blade...you dont need to know tricks of the trade on griding to start grinding.
Im all for the 'trial by fire" way of learning...it may be a bit slower, but the process will tell you if youre cut out for knifemaking or not. Find a basic tutorial and DO IT
Theres a point when you can be too prepared and not yet ready. Start simple and cheap, and let all the details fill themselves in...you dont need to learn the intricacies of different metal structures during HT until you can at least harden a blade...you dont need to know tricks of the trade on griding to start grinding.
Im all for the 'trial by fire" way of learning...it may be a bit slower, but the process will tell you if youre cut out for knifemaking or not. Find a basic tutorial and DO IT
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2006
- Messages
- 3,953
Mr. Cashen, the fact that you read through my gibberish is an honor. Your advice is spot on and brutally honest. I know we've all seen both kinds of smiths and each group wonders how the other guy makes it through the day. One group wondering how the guy making all that money looks at himself in the mirror, the other group wondering how that guy can be so cheerful making so little but working so hard.
The young man said he wanted to be serious but does that mean he is serious in his intent to become a bladesmith or he intends to become a serious bladesmith? lol I think people that are "serious" bladesmiths tend to burn themselves out (pun intended) because you have to have a sense of humor to face all the challenges at the forge and in the shop.
I was just getting to the point where I had customers and was making a little profit when a lot of health and personal life issues hit me in the perfect storm to pretty much end my smithing for almost 3 years now. I'm working on getting my shop reassembled and gathering up supplies to get the fires lit.
Speaking of humor, I had surgery to repair my left achilles tendon, well I fell down while on crutches and tore my right acl (again lol) so I'm laying in bed with a surgical splint on my left leg and and a knee immobilizer on my right leg. My gf set up her laptop and a wireless lan at our place so I can get on the net while bedridden. I have a sketch pad and I'm furiously designing new blades and my workshop.
If you want to become a millionaire bladsmithing better start with 2 million. I can't remember who said that.
If you can't laugh you gotta cry, why shed tears?
Will
Formerly known as badbamaump
The young man said he wanted to be serious but does that mean he is serious in his intent to become a bladesmith or he intends to become a serious bladesmith? lol I think people that are "serious" bladesmiths tend to burn themselves out (pun intended) because you have to have a sense of humor to face all the challenges at the forge and in the shop.
I was just getting to the point where I had customers and was making a little profit when a lot of health and personal life issues hit me in the perfect storm to pretty much end my smithing for almost 3 years now. I'm working on getting my shop reassembled and gathering up supplies to get the fires lit.
Speaking of humor, I had surgery to repair my left achilles tendon, well I fell down while on crutches and tore my right acl (again lol) so I'm laying in bed with a surgical splint on my left leg and and a knee immobilizer on my right leg. My gf set up her laptop and a wireless lan at our place so I can get on the net while bedridden. I have a sketch pad and I'm furiously designing new blades and my workshop.
If you want to become a millionaire bladsmithing better start with 2 million. I can't remember who said that.
If you can't laugh you gotta cry, why shed tears?
Will
Formerly known as badbamaump
"Everything I learned about business I learned from Kevin Cashen"
That really boils it down to an all-too-clear message, and I think a LOT of us who are starting out really appreciate this sort of wisdom.
Thanks for posting what many of us really need to hear, Kevin;
that was great.
That really boils it down to an all-too-clear message, and I think a LOT of us who are starting out really appreciate this sort of wisdom.
Thanks for posting what many of us really need to hear, Kevin;
that was great.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 1999
- Messages
- 1,068
If you want to learn to hammer steel in a supervised environment, I really would suggest the ABS school in Washington, AR. The Intro to Bladesmithing class is a good one. There are very talented and skilled people who will show you how to hammer steel into a knife like object.
It really is a great school. I won't go into the ABS itself because there are enough threads here about that, one currently 10 pages long. Whatever you do with them, the school is a great learning experience.
The other things mentioned are also good ways to learn. Knives 2008 is a good way to find a knifemaker near you. Call the maker up, intoduce yourself, and ask if you can come watch. Understand that he may not have a lot of time to talk, but you can learn a lot by watching.
Look up www.abana.org, the Artist Blacksmith assn. See if they have any hammer ins close enough to attend.
Once yo get the tools, it's read and study and practice. Wayne Goddard's book, The $50 Knife Shop is a lesson in building a forge, what you can use for an anvil, and a lot of other info. His book The Wonder of Knifemaking answwers a lot of questions. I think they are $20 each and Christmas is around the corner.
Good luck.
Gene
It really is a great school. I won't go into the ABS itself because there are enough threads here about that, one currently 10 pages long. Whatever you do with them, the school is a great learning experience.
The other things mentioned are also good ways to learn. Knives 2008 is a good way to find a knifemaker near you. Call the maker up, intoduce yourself, and ask if you can come watch. Understand that he may not have a lot of time to talk, but you can learn a lot by watching.
Look up www.abana.org, the Artist Blacksmith assn. See if they have any hammer ins close enough to attend.
Once yo get the tools, it's read and study and practice. Wayne Goddard's book, The $50 Knife Shop is a lesson in building a forge, what you can use for an anvil, and a lot of other info. His book The Wonder of Knifemaking answwers a lot of questions. I think they are $20 each and Christmas is around the corner.
Good luck.
Gene
jdm61
itinerant metal pounder
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2005
- Messages
- 47,357
So Kevin........tell us what you realy thingAfter all my years of doing it and observing, if I were to give advise on it I would break it down into two camps- being a bladesmith, or becoming a BLADESMITH.
If you want to become a bladesmith, i.e. a guy who makes really good tools while even being an artist at it, I would study the historical methods of doing it, not the theories just the methods. Study other forms of metalworking artistry, with special attention to jewelry and the like. I would hang around blacksmiths and learn all the hammer techniques I could while ignoring their temperatures and anything said about heat treating. I would buy a good grinder and learn how to use it well before even picking up a hammer. Most importantly I would learn about the metal! Research its properties and how it was meant to be worked, by the people who make the stuff.
I would heat my shop with just about every book or magazine written for knifemakers, (yes burn them, if this is too shocking skip to BLADESMITH. below). The only exception to this would perhaps be the Knives, annuals but not because it is better but, because of the shear volume of images required, it may include some work by other good bladesmiths, and their contact information (I use mine as handy phonebooks). When you see work that you really like that you may want to emulate, check the name on it, if it is one you have seldom heard or seen plastered on covers, find the guy he may actually know what he is doing.
Finding a sugar mama is pretty good advise for this path as since you said serious not hobbyist or just for fun, be prepared to be very poor for some time. What real professional do you know that doesnt have the best tools he can get? For the critical jobs get the best tools to do them. Hair driers and charcoal grills are fine to dip your toe in and test the waters, but since you said serious I will assume we have advanced beyond that. No offense meant Will, as you said that is how you got started.
I also doubt that Stradivarius got a name by scavenging old lutes, mandolins or boat hulls for his materials, he no doubt hand picked the best woods he could find and was very particular about what exact wood they were. I doubt the engineers and mechanics at Porsche are using parts they found in a dumpster or a ditch. Once again you did say serious.
Now if you want to be a BLADESMITH., you will need to change your focus from actual artistry and metalworking and more towards being a businessman, and marketing. Get all the knifemaking magazines and books you can and study the methods of other great BLADESMITHS., not how they make knives
For this path forget the sugar mama, you will need a sugar daddy! Well actually I recently described it more accurately in a talk by another term. Find the folks who for the right cut will take care of you, make you a star and send the business your way, and get you awards. In Hollywood they would be called agents in cities nearer to me they are that other term. I guess if you take stone tools into consideration bladesmithing could be the oldest profession
Find a little tin god with a mass of toadies climbing on each other to be seen with him and copy his knives, climb inside his skin of you can. Hang out at his shop, heck live at his shop (but more importantly at his show table) use his tools if he has any decent ones, and ride his name to the top!
Always be looking for an angle or a gimmick, to make you or your knives bigger than life. If you can stomach it, make stuff up and lie, deceit appears to be the best lubricant for the publics purse strings.
I could go on much longer but as you can see I present two different paths that came to mind when you said serious, and I assumed you got your fires lit perhaps at a show or reading one of the fine knife publications. One path will get you well known, financially viable and well I guess successful in a business sense. The other will keep your hands busy, your feet on the ground and desperately poor, but you will have your pride and the knowledge that you are a bladesmith whos hands can indeed practice that ancient and noble art. This may all seem a bit cynical, thats fine I have been called that enough to embrace the label, but this is how I see it after all my years in this business.
Oh and in case you wonder about the path I chose I need to go cut some wood now because it is cold in MI and I cannot afford the heating bill.
But seriously. Don't let Mr. Cashen freak you out. He has some very strong opinions but in real life, he is actually a nice guy and a very helpful one too I showed him some of my work at Blade and he did not run screaming from the room...lol. What I did learn from him that time was that I really should soak W2 a bit longer before quenching. Sometimes Kevin's posts will make your skull collapse but once you get past all of the braniac stuff, his advice is always spot on and realtively easy to follow assuming you have a good translation program on your puter
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2006
- Messages
- 3,238
Seriously start with figuring out which path you want to take.
Study metalsmithing
I am a jeweler who makes knives, I make knives to feed my soul, kind of like I play music. I have played professionally, I have been on stage with some folks whose names are probably on albums and CDs you have, that and $4.95 will buy you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.
Knives are a passion that has given me pleasure and much pain. I will likely never become a household name, but I hope before I die to make good tools that people will appreciate the beauty and function of.
Follow Kevin's advice, and learn from craftsmen (and women) in all metals. Find a bladesmith who doesn't mind helping you learn. the true masters will be willing to help a newbie who is serious, the others . . . well . . . you probably don't want to waste the money on lip balm.
I wish I had known how open the community is 20 years ago as that would have helped my learning curve immensely!
Last, buy the best tools you can afford, and use the best materials! Good tools are expensive, cheap tools are even more expensive by the time you have replaced them, and wasted your time making them work, fixing them, etc.
Just my 2cents
-Page
Study metalsmithing
I am a jeweler who makes knives, I make knives to feed my soul, kind of like I play music. I have played professionally, I have been on stage with some folks whose names are probably on albums and CDs you have, that and $4.95 will buy you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.
Knives are a passion that has given me pleasure and much pain. I will likely never become a household name, but I hope before I die to make good tools that people will appreciate the beauty and function of.
Follow Kevin's advice, and learn from craftsmen (and women) in all metals. Find a bladesmith who doesn't mind helping you learn. the true masters will be willing to help a newbie who is serious, the others . . . well . . . you probably don't want to waste the money on lip balm.
I wish I had known how open the community is 20 years ago as that would have helped my learning curve immensely!
Last, buy the best tools you can afford, and use the best materials! Good tools are expensive, cheap tools are even more expensive by the time you have replaced them, and wasted your time making them work, fixing them, etc.
Just my 2cents
-Page
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2007
- Messages
- 5,483
Well damn. I was really looking into starting some knifemaking classes around here if i could find some. Now I don't know. lol. Kevin makes me wonder. Of course I could always just remember what I do for a living now. Considering the fact that I'm a Italian motorcycle salesman, I'm sure I'll have enough time on my hands in the winter to give this a shot at no incredible loss. Maybe I'll be out a grand or so. Just gotta find a place near me in Metro ATL that offers classes. Considering that the knifemakersguild site is down and so is the GCKG site. It's tough going at the moment.
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2006
- Messages
- 3,953
Play, well you asked for stories and since I have nothing to do but lay in bed take painkillers and type on my laptop here's a basic bio of my bladesmithing journey.
I was out hunting and my knife broke, I was a soldier for 16 1/2 years so I take an equipment failure pretty seriously. My godfather is a knifemaker (stock removal) and I asked him how much for a good hunting knife, $250? I'm your godson. That's the godson price.
Well I'm stubborn so I figured that I could make my own knife better and it wouldn't cost me $250, how hard can it be? So I bought a bunch of books, read magazines, found a local stock removal maker and visited him. I clamped a 2x24 belt sander upside down in my bench vise and made some very ugly 1095 chisel ground full tang hunters. The local maker did the HT for me. Guess what? they were ugly, hard to sharpen because of my poor edge geometry but they were knives barely. Well I read some more, found the internet and discovered a maker named Hartsfield. I learned about edge geometry, how to hand finish and a lot more about knife design. I took sketch pads and wore them out drawing, I would cut and grind 1/4" balsa to make my prototypes. I made some more knives, these had SS corbys and cocobolo handles. I didn't think these drop point, chisel ground knives with 600 grit finishes were all that great but they were sharp and had decent edge retention. They wound up as gifts to my in-laws. Later that week my father inlaw asked how much I would sell them for since 3 guys at his work place liked them. Hmm $50 with a sheath? They said yeah so I ordered sheaths from Jantz and went about making some more knives. You have to understand at this point my shop consisted of:
1 craftsman 2x24 belt sander upside down in a vise
1 HF $40 drill press
1 HF 7" bench grinder
Bunches of different sanding blocks
Sandpaper from 60-600 grit
Walmart honing stone set
I got tired of waiting for HT from someone outside my control so after some research I learned about the neotribal guys and their charcoal forges... I built a forge from a garbage grille, firebrick and refractory clay a piece of black pipe and a cheap squirrel cage blower I bought at a flea market for $2. My anvil was a $30 HF ASO (anvil shaped object) sitting on a stump my hammers were a variety of HF hammers. This was really neat. Heating steel, whomping steel sure made my grinding on my belt sander a lot easier. I was still doing chisel grinds because I was forced to because of the design of the belt sander lol People kept buying my knives. I saved up enough and bought this neat thing from someone here it's a 2x36" attachment that fits on a bench grinder. WOW I was in high cotton here, I could grind on BOTH sides of a blade now lol I was making knives a lot faster, prettier and sellling for the unthinkable price of $75, I bought a decent Champion blower from ebay for my charcoal forge.
I went to the local forge council meeting, used a coal forge loved the easier heats I was getting so I traded a guy some handle material for some coal. 2 weeks later a train derailed near my house and guess what it was carrying? yep they dumped like 10 tons of coal. I dunno how much I got but it was a lot.
Jerry Fisk came down to Buckmasters doing demos, I emailed him, he was awesome and said come down and see him and bring some knives. I did, he let me forge with him. It was the first time I'd used a gas forge, he had a little venturi forge, I couldn't believe how simple it was. I searched on the net for plans and found some. I built one for a lot less than my Champion blower and haven't looked back since.
My knives progressed to the point where I was able to buy a used Burr King 960. I got a chance to spend a couple of weekends with a JS about 2 hours north of me. I learned a lot from him and hope to reestablish contact to learn more. I started showing my knives on here and got some great customers. Then the bottom fell out of my life. I still have my Burr king, I have the knowledge to build another forge and I know the equipment I need.
At the apex of my bladesmithing my shop consisted of:
Burr King 960 grinder with 10" serrated, 8" smooth, small wheel attachment and platen
HF Bench drill press
14" Dayton Drill press
Home built venturi forge
155# I think Trenton anvil
super awesome high tech tempering oven from yard sale
no idea how many files
at least (1) 50 pack each of 90-2000 grit sandpaper
an old dresser full of handle materials from elk to ironwood to micarta
still used HF hammers cause I could put them on the grinder and shape the way i wanted them.
I think it took me about 4 years from the start to where I had to stop.
I dunno if any of this helped but it's the story of my knifemaking journey.
Will
Formerly known as Badbamaump
I was out hunting and my knife broke, I was a soldier for 16 1/2 years so I take an equipment failure pretty seriously. My godfather is a knifemaker (stock removal) and I asked him how much for a good hunting knife, $250? I'm your godson. That's the godson price.
Well I'm stubborn so I figured that I could make my own knife better and it wouldn't cost me $250, how hard can it be? So I bought a bunch of books, read magazines, found a local stock removal maker and visited him. I clamped a 2x24 belt sander upside down in my bench vise and made some very ugly 1095 chisel ground full tang hunters. The local maker did the HT for me. Guess what? they were ugly, hard to sharpen because of my poor edge geometry but they were knives barely. Well I read some more, found the internet and discovered a maker named Hartsfield. I learned about edge geometry, how to hand finish and a lot more about knife design. I took sketch pads and wore them out drawing, I would cut and grind 1/4" balsa to make my prototypes. I made some more knives, these had SS corbys and cocobolo handles. I didn't think these drop point, chisel ground knives with 600 grit finishes were all that great but they were sharp and had decent edge retention. They wound up as gifts to my in-laws. Later that week my father inlaw asked how much I would sell them for since 3 guys at his work place liked them. Hmm $50 with a sheath? They said yeah so I ordered sheaths from Jantz and went about making some more knives. You have to understand at this point my shop consisted of:
1 craftsman 2x24 belt sander upside down in a vise
1 HF $40 drill press
1 HF 7" bench grinder
Bunches of different sanding blocks
Sandpaper from 60-600 grit
Walmart honing stone set
I got tired of waiting for HT from someone outside my control so after some research I learned about the neotribal guys and their charcoal forges... I built a forge from a garbage grille, firebrick and refractory clay a piece of black pipe and a cheap squirrel cage blower I bought at a flea market for $2. My anvil was a $30 HF ASO (anvil shaped object) sitting on a stump my hammers were a variety of HF hammers. This was really neat. Heating steel, whomping steel sure made my grinding on my belt sander a lot easier. I was still doing chisel grinds because I was forced to because of the design of the belt sander lol People kept buying my knives. I saved up enough and bought this neat thing from someone here it's a 2x36" attachment that fits on a bench grinder. WOW I was in high cotton here, I could grind on BOTH sides of a blade now lol I was making knives a lot faster, prettier and sellling for the unthinkable price of $75, I bought a decent Champion blower from ebay for my charcoal forge.
I went to the local forge council meeting, used a coal forge loved the easier heats I was getting so I traded a guy some handle material for some coal. 2 weeks later a train derailed near my house and guess what it was carrying? yep they dumped like 10 tons of coal. I dunno how much I got but it was a lot.
Jerry Fisk came down to Buckmasters doing demos, I emailed him, he was awesome and said come down and see him and bring some knives. I did, he let me forge with him. It was the first time I'd used a gas forge, he had a little venturi forge, I couldn't believe how simple it was. I searched on the net for plans and found some. I built one for a lot less than my Champion blower and haven't looked back since.
My knives progressed to the point where I was able to buy a used Burr King 960. I got a chance to spend a couple of weekends with a JS about 2 hours north of me. I learned a lot from him and hope to reestablish contact to learn more. I started showing my knives on here and got some great customers. Then the bottom fell out of my life. I still have my Burr king, I have the knowledge to build another forge and I know the equipment I need.
At the apex of my bladesmithing my shop consisted of:
Burr King 960 grinder with 10" serrated, 8" smooth, small wheel attachment and platen
HF Bench drill press
14" Dayton Drill press
Home built venturi forge
155# I think Trenton anvil
super awesome high tech tempering oven from yard sale
no idea how many files
at least (1) 50 pack each of 90-2000 grit sandpaper
an old dresser full of handle materials from elk to ironwood to micarta
still used HF hammers cause I could put them on the grinder and shape the way i wanted them.
I think it took me about 4 years from the start to where I had to stop.
I dunno if any of this helped but it's the story of my knifemaking journey.
Will
Formerly known as Badbamaump
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2003
- Messages
- 2,361
Wow, I thought all day about this post and wondered if it was a bit too much, on other forums there would have been scores of ultra-thin-skinned folks with their panties in a serious bind over such a diatribe. Once again this particular forum has confirmed why it is currently my favorite on the net.
Will, of course I read your post, it is pretty good and has some great counter balance to my gloom and doom.
Oh, then you are also in abject poverty Really, I can give some tips on what is happening inside of steel, but I may be one of the worst businessmen ever to get involved in knifemaking. The business end of it involves proper management of time and money (things the average 3 year old could do better than I can) and being a good salesman which is something I have never had any interest in at all. I have always liked to believe that my knives sell themselves, because I sure as heck cant do it. One of the reasons I look with such disdain on the political wheeling and dealing side of things is that I have observed it for too long and have a belly full of the nonsense that if I ever desired to try would only take time from and get in the way of practicing my craft.
I wished we could just devote our time to making blades and be judged on the merits of those skills and what they produce, but that is not the reality of the game, if it were there would be some makers that most have never heard of making gobs of money and getting actual deserved press.
Nice guy? Who started that rumor?
Playmaker- follow your dreams. Get passionate about blade making and pursue that passion. Avoid anything that will turn it from a passion into work. Forget about the knife, and fall in love with hitting hot steel, shaping the material, and polishing the surfaces. The devil is in the details, chase him out of there and make the details your own private therapy sessions. Do this and success will follow automatically. A bladesmith who sets out to make money may do it but he probably wont make good knives, the guy who sets out to make great knives with no consideration to the money will probably reap both.
Ignore guys who talk the talk, and closely watch the guys who can walk the walk, and then do what they do what they do as often as you can. There are no secrets or shortcuts to being a serious craftsman only man-hours practicing what you want to be good at. Forget about finding the steel that will make great knives, only the smith can make a knife, and a good smith can make a good knife out of just about any steel with enough carbon to harden.
If I could give you but one tip it would be to start a scrap blade pile! how good you get will be determined much more by how big that pile is than how many you sell or put on a table.
Knowledge is power! No truer words were ever spoken. Get as much knowledge as you can and always have your filters on and verify that it is good knowledge. Learning what is happening will allow you understanding of it the first time you do it, and eliminate bad habits that will have to unlearned.
There I hope that was a little more upbeat
Will, of course I read your post, it is pretty good and has some great counter balance to my gloom and doom.
Oh, then you are also in abject poverty
Really, I can give some tips on what is happening inside of steel, but I may be one of the worst businessmen ever to get involved in knifemaking. The business end of it involves proper management of time and money (things the average 3 year old could do better than I can) and being a good salesman which is something I have never had any interest in at all. I have always liked to believe that my knives sell themselves, because I sure as heck cant do it. One of the reasons I look with such disdain on the political wheeling and dealing side of things is that I have observed it for too long and have a belly full of the nonsense that if I ever desired to try would only take time from and get in the way of practicing my craft. I wished we could just devote our time to making blades and be judged on the merits of those skills and what they produce, but that is not the reality of the game, if it were there would be some makers that most have never heard of making gobs of money and getting actual deserved press.
So Kevin........tell us what you realy thing
Nice guy? Who started that rumor?
Playmaker- follow your dreams. Get passionate about blade making and pursue that passion. Avoid anything that will turn it from a passion into work. Forget about the knife, and fall in love with hitting hot steel, shaping the material, and polishing the surfaces. The devil is in the details, chase him out of there and make the details your own private therapy sessions. Do this and success will follow automatically. A bladesmith who sets out to make money may do it but he probably wont make good knives, the guy who sets out to make great knives with no consideration to the money will probably reap both.
Ignore guys who talk the talk, and closely watch the guys who can walk the walk, and then do what they do what they do as often as you can. There are no secrets or shortcuts to being a serious craftsman only man-hours practicing what you want to be good at. Forget about finding the steel that will make great knives, only the smith can make a knife, and a good smith can make a good knife out of just about any steel with enough carbon to harden.
If I could give you but one tip it would be to start a scrap blade pile! how good you get will be determined much more by how big that pile is than how many you sell or put on a table.
Knowledge is power! No truer words were ever spoken. Get as much knowledge as you can and always have your filters on and verify that it is good knowledge. Learning what is happening will allow you understanding of it the first time you do it, and eliminate bad habits that will have to unlearned.
There I hope that was a little more upbeat
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2006
- Messages
- 3,953
very few things in life make me as happy as making a knife. i don't care if they sell, i want to make sharp pointy things to the best of my abilities.
i love talking with other makers and knife knuts, for the most part they're good people.
i do hate making sheaths though.... hate it hate it hate it.
Steven King once said that he used to hate dinner parties because people used to come up to him and say how they'd like to be a writer. He says he used to reply with I'd like to be a brain surgeon. Then he goes on to say when he got tired of being polite he'd ask them why didn't they write? Writers write, that's what they do, you don't need a formal education to write. Apply that to bladesmithing, a lot of people say they want to be bladesmiths, what's stopping you? You can start forging blades for less than $50. Bladesmiths smith.
Will
Formerly Known as Badbamaump
i love talking with other makers and knife knuts, for the most part they're good people.
i do hate making sheaths though.... hate it hate it hate it.
Steven King once said that he used to hate dinner parties because people used to come up to him and say how they'd like to be a writer. He says he used to reply with I'd like to be a brain surgeon. Then he goes on to say when he got tired of being polite he'd ask them why didn't they write? Writers write, that's what they do, you don't need a formal education to write. Apply that to bladesmithing, a lot of people say they want to be bladesmiths, what's stopping you? You can start forging blades for less than $50. Bladesmiths smith.
Will
Formerly Known as Badbamaump
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2005
- Messages
- 2,527
This is a great tip. The better my skills get, the larger this pile gets. More importantly, the better I get, the better my scrap blades get!
It's amazing to look back and see what I used to make and notice that some of the ones in the scrap pile are now better than my previous best work!
I've even went back through that scrap pile and found old knives that I thought were scrap back when I threw it in, but with new skills that I've acquired since tossing it in there, have allowed me to pull it out and finish it to my higher standards of today. You learn how to fix things along the way, as your skills advance.
I show off my scrap pile, as much as I show off my best work. It's a history of my journey as a knifemaker!
Ickie
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith
ilmarinen - MODERATOR
Moderator
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2004
- Messages
- 38,513
If your serious, set goals and work hard to meet them. Study and learn all you can.
For you and many other newer members on this forum:
FILL OUT YOUR PROFILE, It shows you are not a mall ninja or just a kid who wants to talk about knives. Real smiths and makers are proud of who they are and where they have been. It also allows others to see where you live and offer aid, training, and materials.
Reading is the key to learning. Start with a couple of good books.
Stacy
For you and many other newer members on this forum:
FILL OUT YOUR PROFILE, It shows you are not a mall ninja or just a kid who wants to talk about knives. Real smiths and makers are proud of who they are and where they have been. It also allows others to see where you live and offer aid, training, and materials.
Reading is the key to learning. Start with a couple of good books.
Stacy