Serious "relationship" crap

About the suicide thing. He is now really embarrassed about it. He didn't even remember calling me because he blacked out (drunk) but said he didn't intend to kill himself, he was just kinda acting crazy, and he made a mistake of combining pills (for energy) with too much to drink.

As far as the way he treats me, he was the one who sent me a dozen roses on my birthday. He's sent me CD's he's burned, usually with some of his songs (with him singing) and even sent me a tee shirt he made from his computer once because he had one like it and thought it was funny. (I can't wear it outside my house!)

He was very affectionate too, which felt really nice. And he said that I was the first girl who let him snuggle up to me all night without pulling away. I think it's sweet that he likes to snuggle. I got up once to go to the bathroom and I came back and he was snuggling with my cat!

And all of my animals loved him. I think they liked him more than they like me! And he liked them too (another plus.)

Just trying to paint a picture of him that is honest. The reason we were such good friends for so long is that we are so much alike in bizarre kinds of ways, like our sense of humor and the stuff we like to do. He says we are both creative geniuses. :cool: Maybe artistic with a splash of mad scientist thrown in.

Anyway, as things stand, I think I'm going to just follow his lead and go with whatever he throws my way. I'm going to try not to worry because that will only make me stressed, and I want to enjoy the feeling, not be afraid of it. If something bad happens, there is nothing I can do about it now. What's done is done, so I guess I can only wait and see.

Or as I have to tell myself: "No one can find the rewind button girl, so cradle your head in your hands... and breathe, just breathe." And as they say in AA, of course, just take it one day at a time.

Sorry for the drama, but thank you all for your advice and concern.

~ashes
 
OK. let's recap.

Pro's: He's a creative, witty, intelligent, sensitive guy.

Cons: He is a suicidal, unstable, manipulative, multi-substance abuser who conveniently "blacks out" and therefore avoids having to take responsibility for his bad behavior. He is unreliable both for personal and work-related appointments. He repeatedly makes you feel guilty for things that he has done. He doesn't seem to have any visible means of support, drifting here and there sponging off of friends and relatives, coming and going according to his own agenda.

So it looks to me like you are a couple of co-dependant substance abusers enabling each other to avoid having to face the realities of life.

You have recently taken steps to break out of that cycle and I applaud and admire you for having the courage to do so. I doubt that this fellow can help you on your journey at this point in time because it is so crystal clear that he is not yet ready to take those steps himself.

If you keep doing the same things but expect a different result you will surely be disappointed. We both know that, don't we?
 
mycroftt said:
OK. let's recap.

Pro's: He's a creative, witty, intelligent, sensitive guy.

Cons: He is a suicidal, unstable, manipulative, multi-substance abuser who conveniently "blacks out" and therefore avoids having to take responsibility for his bad behavior. He is unreliable both for personal and work-related appointments. He repeatedly makes you feel guilty for things that he has done. He doesn't seem to have any visible means of support, drifting here and there sponging off of friends and relatives, coming and going according to his own agenda.

So it looks to me like you are a couple of co-dependant substance abusers enabling each other to avoid having to face the realities of life.

You have recently taken steps to break out of that cycle and I applaud and admire you for having the courage to do so. I doubt that this fellow can help you on your journey at this point in time because it is so crystal clear that he is not yet ready to take those steps himself.

If you keep doing the same things but expect a different result you will surely be disappointed. We both know that, don't we?
Click to expand...

I hate to admit it but you've described the relationship between me and my Old Lady throughout different stages of our lives together, saddly I've only been with her for 28 years, and lookin' forward to at least that many more.

There's no such thing as the perfect relationship or the perfect couple, it's only a perception.

We fight, we make up, we disagree, we walk the same lines, but one thing we were before anything else, best friends, I prefer her company 99% of the time over all my friends, most of which I've known longer.

I love my Wife, and can't imagine life without her, a friend of mine for 38 years just lost his wife a year ago to an aneurysm during Memorial day weekend, he was devastated, but for the sake of his 12 year old son he's getting on with life, I don't know if I could do that, I can't hear a song without thinkin' of her, drive down a road or go anywhere without thinkin' of her.(my wife)

When you spend that much time together your lives become intrinsically intertwined and everything everywhere winds up leaving it's mark on your souls, blah, blah, yada, yada.

If you ain't afraid to be hurt than it's always worth a shot, at least you'll never wake up saying I wonder what it could have been like.

Remember Ashes, the only person who know's if it's worth a shot is you, what does your gut say?
 
mycroftt said:
OK. let's recap.

Pro's: He's a creative, witty, intelligent, sensitive guy.

Cons: He is a suicidal, unstable, manipulative, multi-substance abuser who conveniently "blacks out" and therefore avoids having to take responsibility for his bad behavior. He is unreliable both for personal and work-related appointments. He repeatedly makes you feel guilty for things that he has done. He doesn't seem to have any visible means of support, drifting here and there sponging off of friends and relatives, coming and going according to his own agenda.

So it looks to me like you are a couple of co-dependant substance abusers enabling each other to avoid having to face the realities of life.

You have recently taken steps to break out of that cycle and I applaud and admire you for having the courage to do so. I doubt that this fellow can help you on your journey at this point in time because it is so crystal clear that he is not yet ready to take those steps himself.

If you keep doing the same things but expect a different result you will surely be disappointed. We both know that, don't we?
Click to expand...

Wow, that was harsh. He is not suicidal - it was a one time mistake. He makes a lot of money and never lets me pay for anything. He also contributes rent to his friends he lives with even though he isn't there much. He is very generous. He drives a moving truck, it isn't like he's a drifter. He never sponges off anyone. Just the opposite. Also, he never makes me feel guilty for anything. He tries to make me feel better about things.

I totally don't understand where you got all that. Now I'm feeling defensive of him and myself. And as for me, I am a strong person. So what if I am flawed; I've made it this far and I'm doing pretty damn good for all I've gone through.

~ashes
 
Ashes, just from reading your posts, I have surmised that you are a strong woman. Take beauty and humor out of the equation, and you still have a great package. (Just to let everyone know, Ashes already gave me green, so I'm not rep whorin'.). You know what you want to do, you know what you should do. You know this guy, we don't, we've only heard a little bit about him. The rest of the paragraphs could be in big bold letters, but all of us still pick up on SUICIDE.

I don't know the guy, but you do. Like I said, you seem like an intelligent person who is grounded. You know the risks if you do start a relationship with him, and the regrets if you don't. We can only give you opinions, you already know what to do.

I would see where it goes. If it wasn't an attempt, just a fit of drunken stupidity, then okay. If he is a good guy when he doesn't go off half cocked, have a good time and see what happens. You're obviously infatuated with him, that might turn into love.

However, if it was my sister, I would have extreme trepidations.
 
Ashes, I'm the last person in world who should be giving love advice...

But this was a red flag for me:
"combining pills (for energy) with too much to drink."
Click to expand...
Maybe it's not a regular thing, I don't know. But combined with his one-time suicide attempt, it could spell trouble. Here in New Mexico domestic violence is the leading cause death in some counties, fueled by substance abuse.

Otherwise, use your own judgement, keeping in mind that your affection for him may not allow you to view the full picture objectively. Maybe he's not a good match, but you'll never know if you don't give it a chance.

-Bob
 
Should also add:

Your chances with "J" are as good as any of ours'. But there are certain "zero-tolerance" situations - illegal drugs, violence towards others, sexual untrustworthiness...

No, I don't think you've ruined your friendship either way.

One other thing, since you've mainly had a long-distance relationship. When you go for periods of not seeing the other person, it's common to inflate the other person to proportions they couldn't possibly achieve in real life. Once you're aware of that phenomenon, it's easy to counter-balance.

Very best wishes,
Bob
 
Bob W said:
But this was a red flag for me:
"combining pills (for energy) with too much to drink."
Click to expand...

-Bob
Click to expand...

Do you think that he isn't worthy of love because he sometimes screws up with drugs (legal, by the way) and alcohol? He isn't an alcoholic and he didn't make me drink or anything. He's actually been very supportive of my sobriety.

I've had problems with substance abuse in the past, but I don't think it makes me a bad person that doesn't deserve for anyone to try to care about me. For a while I did think that. Off an on, anyway. But mostly I just live my life for my own beliefs and don't judge people for anything but who they really are. And J is a good person deep down. It's one thing I know for sure.

Before, one of the things we had in common was a fearlessness, almost recklessness, about life. Neither of us was afraid of death. I think that in the past few years we've both grown a bit out of that. We are both a little more careful.

~ashes
 
Ashes said:
Wow, that was harsh. He is not suicidal - it was a one time mistake. He makes a lot of money and never lets me pay for anything. He also contributes rent to his friends he lives with even though he isn't there much. He is very generous. He drives a moving truck, it isn't like he's a drifter. He never sponges off anyone. Just the opposite. Also, he never makes me feel guilty for anything. He tries to make me feel better about things.

I totally don't understand where you got all that. Now I'm feeling defensive of him and myself. And as for me, I am a strong person. So what if I am flawed; I've made it this far and I'm doing pretty damn good for all I've gone through.

~ashes
Click to expand...

Harsh indeed. Sometimes things like life and honesty are necessarily harsh. I posted my own observations. You might consider my observations to be valid or invalid - it makes no difference to me at all. I, however, believe my own observations to be valid because, well I guess it's because sometimes "It takes one to know one".

Let me explain where I "got all that".

He is suicidal because he attempted suicide - don't believe that "it was a one-time mistake" nonsense. It takes a special person to make that mistake even once.

He is manipulative because he made you feel guilty about his half-assed suicide attempt. You admitted it - he did. why on god's green earth should you feel guilty about his self-indulgent binging and mutilation? WHY? That makes him manipulative. He makes you pay the emotional price for his own failings. He made you feel guilt about sleeping with him. You said so. That makes him manipulative. I see a pattern of you regretting things that are related to his actions. That makes him manipulative and makes you manipulable. Take some action to stop it. How about you take responsibility for your actions and he takes responsibility for his? Try it - you'll like it.

He is unreliable both personally and professionally. You said he showed up late - but early enough to sleep with you. Previously he had been missing for several days. Then he blew off work - do I need to say more?

He is a multi-substance abuser because he takes pills and lies about the reason (for energy - come on! - WAKE UP!!!) and drinks until he blacks out - but not before making late night phone calls. Making late night phone calls is an abusive manipulative tactic because it says "I'm all ****ed up and that's more important than anything you might be doing so I thought I would just impose my problems on you". Does this point require any discussion at all? Do not deny it!

I'm glad to hear he pays his own way. I think I was over-reacting when I accused him of being a sponge. I am really glad he has good features and I hope they win out over the negatives that are so obvious to those who have already trodden the ground you are now treading. I know this stuff for the reason I have already stated. Darn good thing his brother happened to live in Erie when he pulled his suicide act, eh?

I'm not advising you to blow him off. I am advising you that he is not sharing your agenda right now. If you decide to cast your lot with him I hope it works out - I would be ecstatic in fact - but I am not hopeful that could happen.

Bottom line is I think you should go for your own dream of clean and sober and you shouldn't compromise it for someone who is not there yet. I'm no angel and I'm certainly not perfect, but I know a dysfunctional situation when I see it, after all, I lived it for half my own life.

Good luck and my best wishes (I really mean it).

Mike
 
Do you think that he isn't worthy of love because he sometimes screws up with drugs (legal, by the way) and alcohol? He isn't an alcoholic and he didn't make me drink or anything. He's actually been very supportive of my sobriety.
Click to expand...
It was just a warning flag that jumped out at me. Perhaps the two of you can overcome it, perhaps it's a non-issue. I dunno.

-Bob
 
I never could understand this attemted suicide thing. How do you fail at suicide if you really wanted to kill yourself? I believe if somebody truely wanted to commit suicide they would succeed every time.
 
Bob W said:
It was just a warning flag that jumped out at me. Perhaps the two of you can overcome it, perhaps it's a non-issue. I dunno.

-Bob
Click to expand...
I agree with Bob W. The guy is lying about his substance abuse. Taking pills "for energy" is about the lamest excuse I ever heard.

I don't care if I'm not making friends with these posts. I'm telling it the way I see it. Soft-pedalling the problem is a sign of being an enabler. Don't enable this stuff. Call it out the way it really is - like this: Taking pills "for energy" while drinking until you pass out but not before you make middle of the night phone calls to a bunch of folk makes you a SUBSTANCE ABUSER.

If the shoe fits, wear it...
 
Ashes said:
Do you think that he isn't worthy of love because he sometimes screws up with drugs (legal, by the way) and alcohol? He isn't an alcoholic and he didn't make me drink or anything. He's actually been very supportive of my sobriety.

I've had problems with substance abuse in the past, but I don't think it makes me a bad person that doesn't deserve for anyone to try to care about me. For a while I did think that. Off an on, anyway. But mostly I just live my life for my own beliefs and don't judge people for anything but who they really are. And J is a good person deep down. It's one thing I know for sure.

Before, one of the things we had in common was a fearlessness, almost recklessness, about life. Neither of us was afraid of death. I think that in the past few years we've both grown a bit out of that. We are both a little more careful.

~ashes
Click to expand...

He certainly sounds like he is worthy of love, and I think he is a fortunate man indeed is he has yours. Don't forget the journey that you are on yourself and don't forget that you have to take that journey whether he comes along or not. You can't love him if you're not living.
 
Wow. :eek:

I'm pulling for you Ashes. mycrofft makes good sense, sounds like straight talk from a friend, not an attack at all.

Here's a street cop's analogy. It's not about "worthy" and you aren't failing anyone or anything to save yourself first. It's rule number one in emergency service, your survival is your first responsibility.

Someone who's drowning is not "unworthy" of rescue. But even to a strong swimmer, they are dangerous. Sometimes you take that calculated risk.

-But when you're still uncertain in the water yourself... well then you need to recognize that and stay dry. If that other drowns, that's awful.

Two bodies wouldn't make it any better. :(
 
Okay, now I've read the stuff about the drugs and attempted suicide I need to add one thing to what I wrote earlier.

You can stand by someone as they sort out their life, but you can't sort it out for them, or allow yourself to get dragged into their misery.

You obviously know all of this, because you have decided to make major changes in your own life, but don't forget that you made your own decisions, and that J will have to do the same thing.

If he starts to adversely affect how and who you want to be, or tries to make you responsible for his misery or happiness, take a couple of steps away and see what he does next.

I'm yet to meet someone who doesn't deserve to be loved, but sometimes the demands that go with love can be crushing.
 
:rolleyes:

He called me tonight. We had a long discussion that basically involved us going back and forth about what we wanted from each other and stuff. I guess we each wanted the other person to say it first, even though it was kind of obvious that we both wanted the same thing. I did win though. ;) He was the one to finally say that he wanted to be "exclusive" and that he was worried about my not being able to be faithful with him. I promised him (truthfully) that I would be if he would be, and he also promised wholeheartedly that this is what he wants too and that he (according to himself, and I hope he's right!) is most trustworthy when it comes to me. I suppose this is yet to be seen, but after our discussion tonight, things really seem to be looking better.

One really good thing is that we both talked about "addictions" and stuff. He said that he is serious about quitting both the pills and the drinking, or at least cutting back a lot on the drinking. He knows that it is an issue with me and he doesn't want to contribute to it.

Maybe it all sounds out of control, but I think we might be able to get it back under control. After all, we are both still kinda young... (I'm 27 and he's almost 26... and yes, I'm robbing the cradle, for me!)

~ashes
 
Well you're definitely off to a good start. Wish you both the best of luck.

But be strong if the time comes to go your seperate ways. For instance, if he doesn't keep his end of this:
One really good thing is that we both talked about "addictions" and stuff. He said that he is serious about quitting both the pills and the drinking
Click to expand...
or his promise to be "faithfully exclusive".

Like I said, your chances are as good as anyones'.

-Bob
 
Ashes,

It sounds like what was said on the phone was important and useful stuff.

If you can, commit what was said to memory, and make it the basis of how the relationship will work.

IMO, groun rules can sometimes feel childish, but they can also help make events and emotions clearer.

I've been in a couple of relationships where I wish I'd stated, remembered, and reminded the woman in question of the ground rules: it would have saved a lot of needless and painful twists and turns.

David
 
As if, I could comment on a relationship but here goes.

Ask yourself before you find yourself doing things that you normally wouldn't
do, "Does this make me happy and will it make me happy later?" Now there
is no relationship that doesn't require "adjusting" but he is gone most of the
time is that what you want? You have said that you weren't certain about
this thing when you said "there is someone on my couch sleeping" that was
a moment of doubt no doubt. Let me ask you are certain you want to make
the "exclusive" pledge even though there may be nothing going on in the
meantime? What qualities do you like about him and what ones can you not
like and still deal with? Can he deal with you? Not your today problems but
your tommorrow problems and your yesterday problems as well?

Is there a "love connection" or is this just "friendship" gone to far?

And other than that if your good and it's good why can't it be good?

And btw you can tell if you've got it bad if you have a shirt, jacket or his
cologne. Pick your object but if you have something of his to remind you
of him.... look out... you got it bad :p :D
 
Whatever happens, good luck.

Hope for the best, and sometimes you may just get it.

About the suiciding, to me it's a sign of weakness, but every once in a while, even the strongest individual goes through periods of doubt, depression and uncertainty.

But as long as he doesn't do it regularly, then maybe you can give him a chance.

I'm glad that he has his good points.

Best wishes for your new relationship. Don't forget to show him your knife collection, so that he will know NOT to be a naughty boy.

Enough said.
 
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