Serious sheath questions (please don't laugh at me :( )

RL

RL

Joined
Aug 24, 1999
Messages
2,286
Hi All,

I'm about to make the "jump" from tactical folders to tactical fixed blades and I have some SERIOUS concerns about sheath options...

Ok, here's my main concern...I read somewhere that you should never use an IWB sheath IF you are (ahem) a "big" person and your stomach hangs over your beltline because you may cut yourself as you withdraw...well, let's just say that I qualify for this concern! So, is this something I should legitimately worry about? Will I encounter the same problem with a "high-ride" strong side sheath? What about crossdraw? (yikes! I imagine that would be even worse!)...What about a "dundee rig" type sheath...will I slice my a$$ off if I try to withdraw quickly and I am not standing exactly straight?? SOB??

Ideally, I would like a sheath that allows me to withdraw (with great speed) into reverse-grip (blade out)...also, I am seriously considering a double-edged blade (or should I not even think about that??).

Thanks,
RL
 
RL-

I am one skinny dude, so I can't tell you from personal experience except that I LOVE IWB sheaths/holsters.

Really, you need to try it for yourself, to see if it works for you.

A "tactical fixed blade" that I just bought is the CRKT Polkowski/Kasper Companion. Super sheath options, SUPER price (especially from internet mail order services), I love the handle design. Only $35(US) from the right place. A very reasonable price for a hell of a design.

You'd pay several hundred for an equivalent custom knife. Now available in production.

:)

Tell us what you discover.
 
Hi SM24,

Unfortunately, there aren't many knife stores around to test these things (stupid me, should have done this at the CKG show two weeks ago :( )...

yup, Kapsers (and all Polkowskis, really) are very nice but right now I am looking at the Mad Dog Shrike (full size) :)

RL
 
I would think you could get away with a belt mounted sob sheath pretty well. Otherwise you could try a back rig if all else fails, maybe a draw point or a backpack style.
 
Have you considered a Static-Cord type sheath? Basically a sheath, without a clip or strap to go around the belt, but a length/loop of cord (para-cord works, or you can use something fancier) that comes from the bottom of the sheath, and loops around your belt or belt loop...
The sheath is just tucked down into your waist-band, and held in by pressure (altho I'm sure a custom sheath maker could put a little stud on it that'd keep it from slipping down if you didnt think this would be secure).
When you draw, the sheath comes out, and is away from the body before the knife clears it.
I've improvised a rig like this for myself with a Livesay neck knife... works like a charm, with that 4 inch blade... and I dont think the longer Shrike (cool choice, BTW) blade would make a bit of difference, should still work.

www.bladerigger.com makes this type of deal... but any sheath maker should be able to make one for you too.

Also, what about an inverted sheath, rides on your belt, handle down, blade up... similar in position to a shoulder rig, under your arm, you draw straight down, and boom. (Last year, I carried a SOG Seal Pup like this anytime I went anywhere for about two months... to be concealed it has to be under a jacket of course, but doesnt have to be a heavy jacket, and i found this position to be very comfortable.)

a horizontal SOB sheath isnt a bad idea either... altho I'd think the Shrike might be a bit large for that... but I dunno tho...
 
thanks...that is an interesting suggestion...I like the idea of a static cord...I have some follow-up questions though...let's say that you wear your shirt loose (outside your pants)...will the shirt get in the way when you pull the knife/sheath out far enough to "activate" the static cord?? Also, don't you lose the ability to draw and cut in one continuous motion?? (I have never used a static cord sheath so...)

As for upside down carry...I thought of that...unlike the model in the pic below, I think that my anatomy would get in the way, or at least push the sheath outward, which would look quite "funny" (assuming my usual "shirt outside pants and over knife" look).

highride.jpg



RL
 
*opens his bamboo "CD" box... lifts CD envelopes, moves an ice pick and takes out before mentioned Livesay... puts it on, steps back, practices against thin air for a few minutes... replaces blade and sheath hidden in box* (sorry for the james bond wannabe-esque moment... but is really how I keep those two items, since I like having 'em near my desk, and dont wanan frighten any guests who dont need frightening, I just stick 'em in that box. lol)

No... I dont think it would affect being able to strike in the same movement as the draw.
You dont want to cord teribly long, just long enough that the total length of it and the sheath, extend far enough that the sheath opening is clear of the body.
It might take some practice to get really good at it, but I dont think it would negatively affect ones ability to strike on the draw.

If you have the March 1997 issue of Tactical Knives on page 60 there's a great shot of a JSP knife being drawn from one of their Static Cord sheaths, and it imparts the impression that continuing that motion, would allow you to cut into the target. (If you dont have the issue, and wanna see the pic, gimmie a holler, I'll scan it it and post it or send it to you in email.)

But it seems apparent from spending a few minutes playing with my static cord like set-up, that its more than possible. (I carry it on my left side, for a cross-draw, usually... but it'd work for a left hand reverse grip draw too, so I practiced a few draws and contiued the motion into slashing air like that, and on my right side as well.)

As for the shirt getting in the way... I almost exclusively wear my shirts loose, outside my jeans, and I've never had a problem with that... altho I usually use my other hand to pull my shirt up a little, to execute a clean draw... like cutting in the same motion as the draw, tis possible, and with a little practice would most likely become nearly effortless.
 
Hey thanks for your efforts...seems very encouraging!

I was just surfing the JSP site (haven't been there in a long time) and I saw a lot of new "nifty" things (e.g. the "tactical bandana"...should go well with James Keating's video of the same name :) )...anyway, the spinal backup looks like a viable option too except that it is a bit too complex (and try explaining THAT system to a LEO!!!).

Ok, static cord looks good so far...the only remaining concern is that the sheath will flop around once you deploy the blade (so you can't resheath quickly...and the sheath attracts "attention")...but I like it :)

BTW, thanks for your offer...I don't have that particular issue of TK and I'd appreciate the scans.

Thanks,
RL
 
JSP%20Static.jpg

there's the pic...
I think with a little adjustment of draw angle angle that motion could be extended right into a slash against your opponent.

In engineering school I learned that the best designs are so easy to use that their design appears to have been obvious. The Static Cord system is one such animal. It consists of a Kydex shroud covered in leather or the proprietary Rigger Coat, with a cord attached to its end. Sound simple, huh? But take a look at it. The cam-locking sheath has none of the excess leather or Kydex found in almost all other designs. The sheath, infact, occupies hardly anymore space than the knife itself. The leather or Rigger Coat exterior has no seams! And there are no rivets in sight.
Theres a slight lip on the sheath to catch on a pocket seam, allowing the knife to be carried handle-down there. Why cover the Kydex with leather or Rigger Coat? So the the sheath makes no noise while concealed, and to provide friction for its carry.
Static Cord sheaths can be carried with the cord attached to a belt, and the sheathed knife inserted into your waistband, into a pant pocket or into a coat pocket. To draw the knife simply grasp whatever part of the sheath, and pull. If your hand meets the handle, then the knife will pop out of its sheath as the static cord becomes taut; if your hand meets the sheath then it will be naturally guided to the knifes handle as you withdraw your hand. Likewise, the Static Cord system can be carried inside a purse or bag, with the cord attached within. In this case, all you need to do is to loop a finger around the static cord and pull; the sheath and knife will naturally be presented with this motion.
Static Cord System
Note that this sort of carry is not possible with a traditional sheath: Either the sheath is not round and smooth so that you cant run your hand along it as you withdraw the knife, or it has some kind of snap closure that prevents it from being deployed this way. The Static Cord system comes with a cord jam adjustable static cord for adjusting the amount of cord thats let out before the knife is free.
Now why would you want a Static Cord system instead of a traditional speed scabbard type sheath? Well, this system allows you to carry the knife in a much greater range of places and at variable angles, and you can reposition the knife quickly and easily - for long periods of sitting, for example. Another feature of this system is one most people wouldnt think of, but James Piorek has: When the knife is drawn this way, the blade clears the sheath after the knife is well away from your body and anyone close to you, and thus you arent likely tu cut a companion or spouse in the heat of your initial reactionary movement. Also, re-sheathing is done safely away from your own body.
Click to expand...
[edited to add, article was by Ralph Mroz]

And there ya have it...

Oh yeah, about the sheath flopping around, unless you somehow got an arm hooked through it, I dont think it'd be much problem... I've never experianced it in training, and never even come close to getting an appendage hooked in it, so I think thats probably an im-probability... and with focus on other things, like your attacker, I dont think you'd notice the flopping sheath much.
 
Let's dissect your expressed concerns / needs -

1. If the law in Ontario, Canada prevents you from carrying a double edged knife on the street...then that question is already answered for you.

2. The Cord/Sheath is very interesting however my experience with it shows that the knife/sheath is not secure on the belt during everyday activities or under extreme duress (running, jumping, sliding, and so on). The sheath can move around on your belt as you walk up stairs, get into and out of vehicles, and so on. The cord is essentially what we call in the military a "dummy cord". It is there to tie the piece of equipment to your body so you don't lose it in the field (hence the term "dummy"). To release the knife you must pull - under pressure and at speed - straight out or straight up. This extends your knife and knife hand to the front (where your opponent most often is) or takes your knife out of immediate play (straight up). Not a good thing. Plus, try pulling straight out or straight up wearing a coat, long shirt untucked, or 3/4 vest... In addition I don't want anything hanging off my waist and flopping around where it can either snag on something or be grabbed and used against me as a lever.

3. Upside down carry with a full size knife such as the one shown is likewise fraught with problems. First, you have to draw down and away (as opposed to out). Very difficult to do under stress, or in confined space, or wearing outer concealment garments. Secondly, the knife can be accessed by the bad guy and pulled down and OUT and now you are facing your own knife. This happens if he sees you wearing the knife (poor concealment or accidental / intentional display) or if you're tussling / grappling and he finds it that way. Secondly, after one day of wearing such a knife this way you'll take it off and leave at home. It will do nothing but get in the way of getting in and out of cars, chairs, and so on. It will bump and grab and brush all sorts of everyday items you haven't thought about. This is poor carry / concealment thinking and the knife is way too big for such a manner of carry.

4. If you're that ample in the belly then don't carry anything where you can't readily access it...or put it away safely.

5. Back carries are interesting however if its daily and you sit or use a vehicle much the knife will simply begin causing you back pain or you'll take it off halfway through the day and say to yourself "That sheath SUCKS!". Been there, done that. Innovative doesn't mean practical or comfortable when it comes to holsters and knife sheathes.

6. You're left with the obvious. Select a legal, small or medium size fixed blade with strong side belt carried sheath in either Kydex or leather. Select some nice, comfortable concealment clothing that works as such. Buy a good belt that will carry the weight of the knife handily and likewise allow for secure, fixed carry at your side (this aspect of carry is almost always overlooked...what are you attaching your sheath TO?). Practice safely and slowly with your draw stroke and replacement stroke. Ensure the knife is carried securely when with you. Finally, LEARN how and when to properly use your blade for self protection. When you train it's amazing how quickly you find out just how efficient / effective the knife design is (or is not) and how important a solid, dependable, practical, objective manner of carrying the knife daily is.

You're on the right track...let us know what conclusions you came to that work for YOU

:)
 
Might I respectfully suggest a moderate sized fixed blade (4-5"), in a horizontal belt sheath, cross draw, forward of hip.
 
WOW, thanks for your detailed replies...

Legal? What is this word of which you speak ;) AFAIK, it is NOT illegal to own and carry a double-edged per se BUT it IS illegal to carry a knife for defensive purposes...and it is certainly illegal to carry a weapon concealed...thus, it would be quite hard to pull off a Shrike as a letter opener, especially if you are using a JSP spinal carry system!

What I am driving at is that if I try to withdraw a knife (particularly double-edged or reverse grip, blade out and at high speed) from a strong side sheath (whether IWB or OWB), I could potentially cut myself (or so it seems)

I guess for my body-type, a leg sheath is safest but it isn't the most practical (even if it is "legal").

hmmm, maybe a shoulder harness...would it be possible to hang a knife upside down on the strong side so you reach up under your shirt and pull down??

RL
 
How about a Kydex sheath with a frog or stud, at the top of the sheath and then like the old bowie style sheaths just slip it in between your pants and belt. The stud/frog keeps it from sliding down and you can change and angle as you need to stitting/driving/walking. Have made a few for my large bowies and found it very comfortable and under a large t-shirt or flannel the knife hides well.
 
Originally posted by Fallschrimjager
and under a large t-shirt or flannel the knife hides well.
Click to expand...

....how about under a large stomach :(

RL
 
Hmmm... GW made some good points about the Static Cord type sheath... hadnt thought about all that really. :o

Umm... perhaps this is a silly question, but what about a regular shoulder rig?

Ever looked at Bud Nealy's MCS systems? They offer a lot of carry options, nine all told I believe... perhaps that might be able to work for you?

His web-site is www.budnealyknifemaker.com and the portion for the MCS stuff is: http://budnealyknifemaker.com/mcs_system.html
No experiance with his knives, or MCS system, just passing this on FYI.

What about a forward canted strong side belt sheath, looks like a cross draw for your weak hand, but is actually a reverse grip draw for your strong hand? (no idea if this would work or not, just a a thought that just popped outta my head... never had a sheath like this personally tho.)
 
Originally posted by satin


What about a forward canted strong side belt sheath, looks like a cross draw for your weak hand, but is actually a reverse grip draw for your strong hand? (no idea if this would work or not, just a a thought that just popped outta my head... never had a sheath like this personally tho.)
Click to expand...

Yes, that's EXACTLY what I want...Strider uses this configuration quite often...(I would post a pic but that #$%^ Imagestation never works :mad: ..I can email if you'd like)...I have put a lot of thought into this...if I were to do this with a "regular" blade, I think I would be safe because only the back of the blade could potentially rub up against me (although I'd still have to be careful with the point)...with a sharpened false-edge (or double-edge) I am not so sure...BTW, there are several advantages to this configuration e.g. you can draw and slash at the same time, you can draw and poke someone in the leg if they attack you from behind etc.

As for the Nealy sheaths...yes, they are supposed to be good with their "rare earth magnets"...I was thinking of getting the fixed blade Wortac to match the folder I have on the way :)

RL
 
With the standard tek lok attachment I use, straight, crossdraw, horizontal, left or right is standard. The tek lok may not be the most comfortable, since it requires a belt, but it is the most versatile clip on the market.
 
RL,being of generous proportions in the belly department myself,I can tell you that under the belly carry works for me.I have a 4" Boyer tanto in a horizontal carry kydex sheath.I position the knife so the handle is directly over my jeans pocket.A tee shirt provides good concealment.Besides...how many people spend much time checking out a chubby guys belly? ;) Anyway,when the knife is drawn,you`re cocked and locked for a thrust.
 
Hi Carver,

Hmmm, yes, what a great reason not to lose weight...I wouldn't want to jeopardize yet another method of concealed carry :D

Ok, so let me make sure I understand...the knife is horizontal across the front of your body so that the blade is below your navel??? That might work...at least it seems "safe" in the sense that you won't cut anything while withdrawing the knife. Hmmm, I wonder if that would work with a 6.75" Shrike...perhaps I'll have to put on more weight :)

RL
 
Right.Across the front of your body.I haven`t cut myself using this method.You might want to slide your belt buckle as far to the left(assuming you are right handed)as possible and place the sheath to the left of the last belt loop on your pants.This gives you more room to adjust the location of the knife to the left or right.The only concern with this placement is if you go to the rest room and un buckle your belt,depending on how tight the sheath fits on your belt,you risk having the sheathed knife fall off the end of your belt.The Boyer fits my belt good and this has not been a problem for me.

You might consider downsizing your knife.What are you??Some kinda knife knut??:D

PS: Maybe we should contact Spark about starting a fat guys forum.You want to moderate,RL?;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top