Serrations or not on a SD knife?

R

RancidSumo

Joined
Oct 3, 2009
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This has probably been discussed a dozen times but I am going to ask anyway.

While reading through various threads on the merits (or lack thereof) of serrated edge knives I have seen several comments regarding their use as a self defense tool. Unfortunately, few of them have been supported by any real facts.

I am currently looking into getting another knife. Its primary use will be your typical EDC stuff but it needs to have the potential to be used for self defense as well. I have pretty well decided on the knife (Emerson mini-8) but I can't decide on PE or SE which leads us to this thread. In a knife that is to be used for SD, are serrations beneficial, a liability, or do they have no effect at all? Also, are the benefits (if there are any) negated by a CE?

Please keep these things in mind when replying:
-We are not discussing the merits of serrations on an EDC knife
-Looking scary falls under the category of no effect as I don't plan on letting the critter stand there staring at my knife. If I draw it, I plan on using it.
-If you believe that they will inflict a more damaging cut, thats great, but, please try to back it up with something. A homemade test on the deer you shot this weekend or a link to someone else comparing the cuts of SE vs. PE would be equally excellent information.

Thanks in advance for any information and I look forward to reading it.


(Mods, if this is in the wrong forum, please relocate it and forgive my ignorance of how this forum is run.)
 
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I suspect, though have never demonstrated, that a serrated edge would tear through a leather jacket, sweat shirt, etc. more effectively than a plain edge. This is just based on using a serrated edge as a daily user, and being made aware of just how effective such an edge is on everything from boxes to vegetation to clam shell packaging. We are told that a serrated edge excels against rope, rubber hoses, etc., and that is true, but I find them very effective against almost everything they encounter. I'm becoming a fan, after years of avoidance.

:thumbup:
 
Most people are going to say "no" to serrations. That said, I'm not a knife fighter, and I tend to think of serrated knives as a "claw", and so I think the serrations might be beneficial for the novice. I wouldn't use it as an EDC because of sharpening issues, but they would make a good emergency seatbelt, etc., knife also.
 
I agree, serrations serve no purpose in an SD knife. It serves no purpose in slashing tendons or stabbing, where a minimum 3" inch cutting edge comes in handy.
 
You could allways try a knife like the SOG pentagon which is double edged with one full plain, and one fully serrated edge.

Best of both worlds.
 
No serrations.

A well sharpened knife does the job without getting stuck on stuff.

A SD knife should not have serrations.

BUT

If I had a knife with serrations, I would not hesitate to use it for SD.
 
BryFry said:
You could allways try a knife like the SOG pentagon which is double edged with one full plain, and one fully serrated edge.

Best of both worlds.
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True for EDC use, but not so for SD use. The serrations would cause the blade to get stuck in the attacker's ribcage, while the other attacker comes onto you with nothing to defend yourself with.
 
Serrations have been used in fighting knives for thousands of years. In world war one soldiers would notch serrations into their bayonets to shred internal tissue upon withdrawal, and in that day in age, cause almost certain death to the victim. If you were taken POW with serrations on your bayonet, you would often receive... um, special treatment. And if you sink a knife far enough into a ribcage for the serrations to catch, it's game over anyway-withdrawal won't be an issue because they will be down for the count.
 
I have been using the SBK black Benchmade Rift for over a year now what a tufffff EDC
 
RancidSumo said:
the dear you shot this weekend
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She wasn't all that dear, actually, just an ex-wife. Besides, no one saw me do it. They can't prove a. . . . . . . . . . . Oh. Wait. You meant "deer", didn't you? Never mind.
 
i like serratons, they cut tougher matierials better than a plain edge.
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Yes, they work great when you can saw at the material but that isn't a realistic scenario for a SD situation.

True for EDC use, but not so for SD use. The serrations would cause the blade to get stuck in the attacker's ribcage, while the other attacker comes onto you with nothing to defend yourself with
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I am not doubting what you are saying but do you have any information regarding that actually being the case or is it simply a (logical) hypothesis?

Serrations have been used in fighting knives for thousands of years. In world war one soldiers would notch serrations into their bayonets to shred internal tissue upon withdrawal, and in that day in age, cause almost certain death to the victim. If you were taken POW with serrations on your bayonet, you would often receive... um, special treatment. And if you sink a knife far enough into a ribcage for the serrations to catch, it's game over anyway-withdrawal won't be an issue because they will be down for the count.
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Soldiers do all kinds of things that have no basis in reality such as staggering the gas rings on their rifles. Just because they thought it would help doesn't mean that it did. Also, it is a horribly bad idea to assume that one stab will stop a fight no matter where it is administered. People have been shot multiple times in the chest and still continued to fight. A bullet is leaving a much worse wound channel than any knife wound so if they aren't one shot stops, a knife surely isn't.

I have been using the SBK black Benchmade Rift for over a year now what a tufffff EDC
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Ummmm, ok.

BUT

If I had a knife with serrations, I would not hesitate to use it for SD.
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Absolutely. Sometimes you just have to "run what you brung". In this situation though, I have a chance to bring the best gear possible so that is what I plan on doing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RancidSumo
the dear you shot this weekend
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She wasn't all that dear, actually, just an ex-wife. Besides, no one saw me do it. They can't prove a. . . . . . . . . . . Oh. Wait. You meant "deer", didn't you? Never mind.
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Who wrote that? Certainly not me...:o

Oh well, sometimes stoopid shit slips through the cracks.
 
I have the same question. I just saw a video on SD with a knife, and most of the target areas are tendons to be cut with a slashing motion. Cut the forearm to get the bad guy to drop his weapon, then slash the thigh to drop the guy -- then run. Nobody talked about stabing a guy with a bayonet and pulling his entrails out.

So, this is all very confusing to me. They did slash and stab at a porkroast tied to a broomhandle, and a plain blade seemed to do a pretty good job, but they did not try to cut through denim, or what you would normally encounter everyday. I would think serrations would hangup on denim, but do you know anybody who has actually experimented with denim wrapped around a piece of meat. As the original poster said, he wants real world experience, not just an opinion.

If I have to use a knife in SD, I don't want the target looking at me like I'm nuts when I try to slice through a jean jacket and nothing happens. Any Web sites where somebody has experimented? Even bullet manufacturers test personal defense rounds against denim and leather.
 
Cold Steel loves to chop up meat (sometimes wrapped in cloths) can't remember the exact knives, but I'm sure they have some serrated blade demos.
 
ziggy925 said:
I have the same question. I just saw a video on SD with a knife, and most of the target areas are tendons to be cut with a slashing motion. Cut the forearm to get the bad guy to drop his weapon, then slash the thigh to drop the guy -- then run. Nobody talked about stabing a guy with a bayonet and pulling his entrails out.

So, this is all very confusing to me. They did slash and stab at a porkroast tied to a broomhandle, and a plain blade seemed to do a pretty good job, but they did not try to cut through denim, or what you would normally encounter everyday. I would think serrations would hangup on denim, but do you know anybody who has actually experimented with denim wrapped around a piece of meat. As the original poster said, he wants real world experience, not just an opinion.

If I have to use a knife in SD, I don't want the target looking at me like I'm nuts when I try to slice through a jean jacket and nothing happens. Any Web sites where somebody has experimented? Even bullet manufacturers test personal defense rounds against denim and leather.
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Any links to that video? It sounds like it could be very valuable to this discussion.
 
Can't remember where I read it, but Michael Janich stated that Plain-edged was better than a Serrated-edge in a self-defense scenario. Something about the serrations getting snagged on clothing & interfering with the cut.
 
ziggy925 said:
I have the same question. I just saw a video on SD with a knife, and most of the target areas are tendons to be cut with a slashing motion. Cut the forearm to get the bad guy to drop his weapon, then slash the thigh to drop the guy -- then run. Nobody talked about stabing a guy with a bayonet and pulling his entrails out.

So, this is all very confusing to me. They did slash and stab at a porkroast tied to a broomhandle, and a plain blade seemed to do a pretty good job, but they did not try to cut through denim, or what you would normally encounter everyday. I would think serrations would hangup on denim, but do you know anybody who has actually experimented with denim wrapped around a piece of meat. As the original poster said, he wants real world experience, not just an opinion.

If I have to use a knife in SD, I don't want the target looking at me like I'm nuts when I try to slice through a jean jacket and nothing happens. Any Web sites where somebody has experimented? Even bullet manufacturers test personal defense rounds against denim and leather.
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IMO when the adrenaline is pumping, you're stabbing and slashing where ever you can, and using all your might, you're not going to notice a blade snag onto jeans......
 
RancidSumo said:
Yes, they work great when you can saw at the material but that isn't a realistic scenario for a SD situation.
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what isnt realistic?? people wear all kinds of thick clothing like jackets and coats all the time, a plain edge may not get though it so easily. you dont need to sit there and saw at someone for a serrated edge to be useful, just one good pull should rip through a substantial amount of material, more so than a plain edge. the spyderco civilian was created to be a slashing weapon for law enforcement to use to defend themselves when under cover, it came with serrations.
 
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