Serrations

[darthsoaker]

I believe Even a Fully serrated knife should have a good straight edge piece on it for fine work.

But then it wouldn't be fully serrated, would it?

 

[reholli]

I never said serrations were "pretty much useless". Please re-read what I posted.

I will admit it may fly in the face of your reality. You have your experience and I have mine. I started with "I think" and "In my experience". I never said nor implied my word was law, nor anyone who thought anything other than me is wrong.

Well I certainly wouldn't say something dumb like a dull straight blade is always better than serrations. I think we can both agree thats not true. Part of using a knife is keeping it well maintained and sharp. However, I just re-read my previous post, and still do not see where I implied anyone who uses serrated knives cannot sharpen their blades, nor that serrations are a fallback. If the shoe fits, wear it, but remember the two caveats I started with, "I think" and "In my experience".

Well, if a well maintained and properly sharpened straight edge can do just about whatever a serrated edge can, but not vice-versa, then it would logically follow that serrations are pretty much useless, except on a poorly maintained and sharpened knife, either in the possession of someone who does not know how to sharpen a knife, or just doesn't want to be bothered. In this manner serrations become a fallback.

I would assume that your thoughts and experiences revolving around this subject are grounded in the real world and hence are closer to conviction as opposed to casual opinion without merit in your own mind. Isn't the above what you really believe about serrations?

In any event, I'm not trying to argue with you...there are those who believe serrations serve no real purpose on a knife properly cared for, and those that believe they still do.

Let's just agree to disagree...

Ray

 

[Tomahawk23]

Originally, the question was why are they on the left side of the blade... I think, "For Looks" is a Cop-out...
I can't believe that with all the studies and research that All these fine Knife companies do, the reason that All of them came up with the left side grind is because they think it "looks better".
What we need, to answer this question, is one of the Actual Knife Design Technicians.
Whether or not they are "Pretty Much Useless" or not is just a matter of opinion.

P.S. Even most "Fully Serrated" Knives From Spyderco have a Little Bit of a straight edge at the tip of the blade... As far as How much of a straight edge that includes, seems to be completely random.

P.P.S. If a Certain Knife company supposedly "Designs in the Dark" because they are going for Ergonomics and Functionality over "looks"... but then they put the Serrations on the left side of all their knives "just for looks" seem kind of odd to me... maybe they are More into Looks than Functionality than they actually say they are.

 

[orthogonal1]

Well, maybe there is some other tangible reason, perhaps ease of manufacture.

No designers, after all, have chimed in to comment.

 

[znapschatz]

My experience has been that right side serrations allow better control of the cut as compared to those on the left, where the blade had to be struggled with to keep from wandering (this is probably reversed for lefties, but I am right handed.) In response to my email query on this to Sal Glesser, he replied that most of his customers want something that separates material fast, and that properly designed serrations on either side are more important than which side of they blade they are on. He also pointed out that for right handers, if left side serrations cause the blade to stray, it will move away from rather than toward the user (lefties, I guess, will have to take their chances.)

 

[ToyKnife]

They work great for me, a lefty! The only problem I have is sharpening and cleaning, both really aren't that big of a problem. But no serrations make life a little easier.

 

[yablanowitz]

My experience has been that right side serrations allow better control of the cut as compared to those on the left, where the blade had to be struggled with to keep from wandering (this is probably reversed for lefties, but I am right handed.) In response to my email query on this to Sal Glesser, he replied that most of his customers want something that separates material fast, and that properly designed serrations on either side are more important than which side of they blade they are on. He also pointed out that for right handers, if left side serrations cause the blade to stray, it will move away from rather than toward the user (lefties, I guess, will have to take their chances.)

An excellent point by Sal, and one that I hadn't thought of. That would explain why he grinds the serrations on the right side of the blade on left-handed models.

 

[Tomahawk23]

Sal... Right.:jerkit:

 

[MikeC]

I personally think serrations are worthless, I HATE THEM and will not own a knife with them.

That said all Mission knives with serrations have them on the correct side, it was explained by the late John More owner of Mission knives, God rest his soul. That serrations were placed on the left side of pictures, so the clip would not show and make an ugly photograph.

Kinda draws into questions their whole function, doesn't it? I personally think serrations are just form creeping into a world that should revolve near soley around function. Just my opinion.

Mike C

 

[Cougar Allen]

Sal... Right.:jerkit:

Gratuitous personal attack. What will be next?

 

[FLYBYU44]

I used to hate serrations. Then for some reason I bought a Spyderco Rescue, full serrations just to see what all the fuss was about. You know what? That knife has been my #1 EDC since I bought it. The serrations cut through everything as good as a plain edge knife and somethings better. I liked it so much that I bought a Spyderco Mariner in H-1. You guys should really try the serrations out before knocking them. They might not be as tactical looking as a plain edge knife, but they work well IMHO.

 

[Hawkings]

I personally think serrations are worthless, I HATE THEM and will not own a knife with them.
Mike C

I really like this statement.

1. I personally think serrations are worthless: It tells how HE places their value.

2. I HATE THEM: Now he tells us what his feelings are about them.

3. and will not own a knife with them: This is telling us what he is actively doing to support his former statements.

To sum up:
No use.
Dislike them.
Will have nothing to do with them.

Very clear and to the point. (I disagree slightly, but that is not the point)

Sorry for going off topic, but I like it when someone makes a clear point ( you can agree or disagree with the him, but is hard to misunderstand his point of view)


And to go back on topic.
I think it may be that serrations are "Made" to cut rope and that sort of stuff. When cutting a rope, I find myself holding it in a loop with 1 hand, inserting the knife in the loop, and pulling the knife upwards. if you are making a upwards cut like this, the serrations are now on the other side of the blade no idea if this is a valid reason, but its the only 1 I can think of.
(Serration are made with upwards cuts in mind)

 

[Rafael]

I often use a serrated knife edge-up for a controlled cut. Especially when cutting rope. If used like that ,I prefer a knife with serrations on the left side. But it’s only a slight preference.

On the serrations debate: the biggest advantages of a serrated edge are that it stays sharp longer because the points make the first cut and that even a dull serrated blade will cut.

Most of the time I prefer a (properly sharpened) plain edge, but as a back up and for specific tasks I use (fully) serrated.

Rafael

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

The whole serration deal is the same issue as that which is found on most chisel-ground knives. Looks good for the picture is more important than ideal placement when it comes to a marketing standpoint. Honestly, as nice a knife as a lot of the big companies make, let's just remember that their biggest priority is to SELL knives. The loss in performance by putting the serrations or "body" of a chisel grind on the left side of the blade is minimal, while the ease of marketing goes through the roof. Even the almighty Microtech made their chisel grind tantos with "lefty" blades.

I neither like chisel grinds, nor serrations, nor tantos, but I it made me dance with glee when Buck released the Bravo with everything facing THE RIGHT WAY.

 

[Sal Glesser]

Since I began the serrated edged thing, I guess I'll chime in.

Tomahawk is correct is that the reason is not for looks (although his comment is a bit tacky).

When we first made serrations, we tested right and left side serrations.

Because they are ground on one side, the blade tends to gravitate away from the ground side. Customers responded negatively when the blade gravitated towards their hand holding the item being cut.

When we began serrations (1982) we made both left and right handed models with the serrations ground accordingly.

Most of the rest of the industry just copied what we did, without really knowing why.

sal

 

[Bruceter]

The way I see it,

If you are right handed, using a serrated blade with the serrations on the left side of the blade, and cutting away from yourself. The serrations will be against the material being cut and you can adjust the angle of the blade to the material to regulate the depth of the cut, just like using a wood chisel. They are used bevel down for that reason. When slicing something like cheese where you are cutting straight down, the cut can drift as stated.
I use Spyderco serrated kitchen knives 98% of the time. It doesn't take mucht to get used to and adjust for the "drift" when slicing straight down.

Bruceter

 

[flnder]

swiss army one hand trekker has the serrations on the proper side for a right handed person and at the proper end of the blade,that is,they left a plain edge close to the handle so you could whittle tent pegs or whatever.

 

[vjb.knife]

slightly off-topic, but are there any manufacturers that have a double bevel serrated edge? If not, why?

For the most part I have gotten away from serrations all together, but one of the few types that I still like are the ones cut on the Chris Reeve Sebenza. At least with the Sebenza serrations you can still sharpen the entire edge including the serrated section on a flat stone. But to get the root of the serration you only need one of the tapered point DMT sharpeners to make them sharp and looking like new again.

Shane Sibert also uses a similar serration on some of his knives.

First of all I do not believe that they cut much better than a good sharp plain edge.

Second serrations do not hold up as well as a plain edge.

And third for many serration designs it is impossible to keep them sharpened to the correct profile that they were originally made.

The most popular serration design is probably the Spyderco type and to maintain it to its original shape you have to have a tool that Spyderco no longer makes, which is pretty stupid. Yeah, I know you can use a Spyderco profile tool or triangle sharpmaker but unless you are extemely good with it you aren't coming out like new and even if you can it takes a long time. Spyderco used to make a set of ceramic sticks that had the exact contour of the Spyderco serration on one side of them and you can draw the serrated section straight down that side of the ceramic and they look better than new. I still have a set of them; one is grey medium grit and the other is white fine grit. Short of sending your spydie back to the factory you can't get it better than that.

 

[Tomahawk23]

Well Sal... you just gained a little bit of respect back from me. I don't know if that means anything or not.
Its one thing when someone says that you said something compared to when you actually coming on here and saying it yourself.

I have been using the Tenacious I bought for about a month or so now... just to give it another chance. I can't really see where it make a Whole lot of Difference as to what side the serrations are on. I Can see where it serves its purpose as far as Ripping into Fibrous Materials goes... but it it quite lacking when it comes to being able to do much of fine-cutting, clean-line-cutting, scraping or slicing. It tends to rip and say more than cut. Looks Cool... but pretty task specific. I would say Combo-Edge at best.
But thats just my personal opinion and I'm sure I'll get called on it.

 

[Planterz]

I've always been of the opinion that serrated knives were chisel ground the wrong way for right-handers (the majority). Never really thought about the safety concern (it makes sense), but even considering that, I'd still prefer it if the grind was reversed.

The orientation of the grind on other chisel grind knives baffles me too; some do it "right" (meaning both "correct" and "for right-handers"), others don't. Like Emersons. I realize appearance-wise it looks better, since the "front" side of the knife is generally considered what faces us when the tip points left and the edge faces down, and that when deanimating BGs, it really doesn't matter which direction the blade might slightly veer, but utility-wise, it would bug the living snot out of me.

The only serrated knives I own right now (Spydercos) are also hollow ground (Salt series), which centers the chisel grind a bit when you're doing a deep cut (like a cardboard box), helping keeping the cut a bit straighter, but it still wants to curve a bit. I don't think I'd ever want a full flat grind with serrations. Just my personal preference.