Sex offenders in society .

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aproy1101 said:
Damn Josh. I didn't expect that outta you. Nice and scary. Thats how you get the deterrant. Our current death penalty has no effect. You shred one of these guys and watch the psycho wards fill up with voluntary comittals.
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I'm not entirely without mercy; I'd toss 'em a rope once their legs were in. If they can pull themselves out, they can go free.
 
No easy answers...

I agree that I am one who would be in prison myself after getting nasty with the offender...and that would probably not help the child involved.
 
I think everyone should be able to agree on two things here. 1) Very severe punishment, and 2) Very good treatment (assuming, of course, that the punishment doesn't make this step pointless).

It's weird. I think most people, if they caught someone in the act, would kill or maim as their first reaction. And yet those same people (myself included) in many cases support non-lethal punishment.

I heard a story once (and I'm not sure this is true) of a man who shot the man who raped his daughter in broad daylight in front of witnesses. Supposedly he was aquitted; it's the jury's perogative to find someone innocent if they believe the actions were justified.
 
This is insane, I found out there are 47 registered sex offenders in my city that's nuts. I don;t have any kids, but I do have 2 goddaughters if somebody hurt them that way I would go bonkers to put it politely.
 
To those who are surprised at the numbers in your vicinity, keep in mind the registry actually includes more than just true sex offenders. This was the topic of a local morning radio talk show a short while back, as some legislator was trying to introduce measures to clarify who should be put on the list. Apparently there were lots of folks on it for domestic battery, and I forget what all else.
 
Wow, 324 hits in the 5 zip codes that make up my home town:eek: This is scary.

Jake
 
I,m going to clarify my statement a little more and let this run its course as sometimes these issues can get so charged that opposing views cannot be fathomed .

If we want to look at this from a long term/final solution view ? I think Dave is right . I do not agree with everything he says .Philosophically speaking and from a practical point of view I agree with him .

Practicality at this point of time does not come into this . The long term goals needed to settle this are not evident in my proposal . It is a short term , first aid solution . Until a practical proposal that works (all the time) can be implemented short term measures must be taken .

Unspeakable horrors , truly unspeakable , you would never sleep well again if you knew what they were horrors are being done to our children . These horrendous acts are being done by people who can eat a Big Whopper while doing it with more thought to the special sauce dribbling down their chin than what they are doing to your children .

I,m stopping now as I feel the old blood pressure approaching danger levels .
Still it is good to get these things out in the open and even if just one of us talks to one legal representative about taking a look at the situation from a different perspective it will have done a lot of good .
 
In Seattle, the window where people apply for/pick up Concealed Pistol Licenses is the same window where people register as convicted sex offenders. Is it like this everywhere?
 
In Seattle, the window where people apply for/pick up Concealed Pistol Licenses is the same window where people register as convicted sex offenders. Is it like this everywhere?
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Hmmm. Are the cops trying to lessen the work load? ;)
 
Josh Feltman said:
I'm not entirely without mercy; I'd toss 'em a rope once their legs were in. If they can pull themselves out, they can go free.
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:D Now thats good pay per view TV I'd say. (kidding a little here)

MauiRob said:
Hmmm. Are the cops trying to lessen the work load?
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ROTFLMAO!!! Rob. Dang.
 
tinmaddog said:
It's weird. I think most people, if they caught someone in the act, would kill or maim as their first reaction. And yet those same people (myself included) in many cases support non-lethal punishment.

I heard a story once (and I'm not sure this is true) of a man who shot the man who raped his daughter in broad daylight in front of witnesses. Supposedly he was aquitted; it's the jury's perogative to find someone innocent if they believe the actions were justified.
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Word. The really bad ones don't reform, once caught ,they should never be let back out into society. We also should ALWAYS be cautious regarding people's names on Government lists. We should also always try and be aware of children and their situations. Social responsibility.
 
I ought to add a few things.

My opinion may be a bit below the radar because of my own situation, but one of the things that keeps me sane (and from getting killed) is occasionally putting myself in the offender's shoes. If I went down, how would I be handling it? What would I want?

I'm fearful of draconian punishments on the first offense because of just how easy it is to be wrongly convicted of most things, especially crimes that are as emotionally charged as sex crimes. Three strikes and you're out? Sure. Lightning doesn't strike the same place three times. Twice? Dunno. Once? I don't like it. I don't like it at all.

At work, I (and most others) make it a point not to check someone's record unless we have to. I don't want to know why they're in. I just want to know what they're like now. Many of my better workers have been child molesters. Why? The cynical Dave opines that it's because they know that all that stands between them and an awful death is me, so they have no problem working their fingers to the bone on my behalf. The optimist Dave thinks that maybe, just maybe, a few of them want to get better. The first step is to show Officer Rishar that they're not the pieces of crap that he thinks they are.

I don't know. Some of them will continue to offend. Some of them are downright monsters. (Don't ask. Trust me when I say that you don't want to know.) Some of them have learned their lesson. I'm not qualified to determine which is which.

Two additional points that I'd like to touch on:

-- This month's study on recidivism trends most likely contradicts last month's and probably won't jive with next month's. Everyone has a theory, everyone has a solution, but when you get right down to it we still don't know why the hell people commit crimes in the first place. Nor do we have a surefire method for correcting such behavior. This is why we take such people and lock them in cages in the first place; what else can we do with them?
-- Everyone knows someone who has been raped, molested, assaulted, etc. It is a terrible thing. Is it worse than murder? And if not, why don't we register murderers?

Why are we so selective in our hatred?

Just some thoughts. I wish that I had some answers.

For a subject of this intensity, we're doing very well in our discussion thus far. I implore everyone to continue this.
 
There are a couple of statements that you made Dave that I find interesting, if not confusing. You stated that "because of just how easy it is to be wrongly convicted of most things", I just don't understand that statement. It is not Just that easy to be convicted of anything. The law, in California, and as a general rule of law, requires that a person be found guilty "Beyond a reasonalbe doubt". If a jury of peers finds a person guilty beyond a reasonalbe doubt after the presentation of evidence, then, in most cases, that person is guilty of the offense. If not, then they are found not guilty, or are acquitted. An appeal is available if new or additional evidence is found that shows not all facts were present during the trial. The system we use is not always correct, but, as far as I know it is the best available in any country.
As a society, I think it is more important to me, and other parents, that I am aware that a convicted molester lives down the street, than a person who bounced a check a Wal Mart. Or a forger, or a counterfeiter, or a car thief, or a comercial burglar, or an art thief, or a swindler, or a safe cracker, or a white collar criminal, or a gambler, or a loan shark, or drug dealer, or a drug addict......on and on...
You know as well as I do that when a child molester hits the yard, the inmates are trying to find out faster than everybody else. I the inmate somehow has not PC'd up and tries to be a mainline inmate, consequences come with that offense, and they will get challenged on it. The reason is inmates could be, or are, parents themselves and they have no respect for someone who has committed that type of offense, It's possible that they were once molested as a child and it's thier chance to get some payback.
If a convicted molester has done his sentence and wants to enter back into society as a productive citizen, good for them, just don't don't expect a handshake from me for doing it.
 
what gets your name on that list?
would my great grandfather have been put on there? He married his 14 year old student (he was a math teacher) They had five kids and stayed married until their natural deaths. (how many 30 something people stay married that long)
If the list is confined to true child molesters (like michael jackson) then i think it's probably a good idea. More than likely, it was created by the victim of such a criminal, a kind of "brady bill" for sex offenders.

Many of us are probably not old enough to remember the American age of "dont tell"
Rapes and molestations were never reported nor prosecuted because a largely ignorant, biased society blamed the victim.
So what do we do?
The pendulum swings both ways...
 
Civilized discussion on a hot issue thus far...good work. I'm tempted to lock this before it changes, so please stay the course.

No...modding is *not* fun.
 
Any problem needs a solution. We have Paedophlies and we have a need to protect our children. This is ongoing and the very high reoffence rate says that the current solution is not working. Step it up so that repeat offenders need to have a system of automatic red flags should they want to buy a house and move to a new neighbourhood, go into a school.....

I would guess that adding other offences to the public lists would be appropriate. Limiting it to sex offenders is discrimitory. Add to the lists exposure through general usage. A bit extreme example would be a reoffending shoplifter of clothes, buying on a credit card would have a warning note poping up each time she buys in a clothing store.
 
Any problem needs a solution. We have Paedophlies and we have a need to protect our children. This is ongoing and the very high reoffence rate says that the current solution is not working. Step it up so that repeat offenders need to have a system of automatic red flags should they want to buy a house and move to a new neighbourhood, go into a school.....

I would guess that adding other offences to the public lists would be appropriate. Limiting it to sex offenders is discrimitory. Add to the lists exposure through general usage. A bit extreme example would be a reoffending shoplifter of clothes, buying on a credit card would have a warning note poping up each time she buys in a clothing store.
 
Self sustaining low-security camp / farm - automatic death penalty for escape. All members tagged in an effective and humane fashion. (I don't know what that is yet).

These individuals can live productive and satisfying lives amongst those with the same orientation - just with the stimulus (those under the age of consent)removed.

I can't come up with another solution for an "incurable" problem whose victims cannot be protected because of their availablilty and lack of ability to make informed choices.


I view this as a special sort of sexual orientation problem and feel justified in using special methods to moderate it. If the participants were over the age of consent, then it is a "lifestyle choice" amongst adults.

Only my ideas on a difficult topic.

MAT
 
JG, wrongful convictions happen all the time. Even with all those safeguards they happen all the time. To understand Daves statement look at the facts. Regardless of whether our system is the best one in the world, these things still happen here at an alarming rate.

More lists is a bad idea. I don't even like the idea of this list. Creating a biting deterrance for violent crime is a good idea. It just sounds easier than it actually is.
 
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