Shape of handle Scale??

R

Randydb

Joined
Sep 27, 2014
Messages
1,108
Hi,
I made this skinner blade a while back from a pattern I found on the web. I just wanted to make some blanks and learn to grind. Now I want to build it out, but I can't figure out what the handle shape should be and where the front of the scale should sit. I can't find a finished knife that looks like this either. I'd appreciate some suggestions here. I have 3 ideas so far, but have no idea if one is better than the others.

Thanks.

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#3 is my pick, so the finger choil near the blade doesn't end up too thick.
And I like that it breaks up all the curves.
Scott
 
I’m not a fan of a large ricasso so of your sketches I’m partial to number 2. If you go with 3 I’d extend the handle material further forward and have the plunge line mimic the scale line.
 
imill3567 said:
I would also go with #3 but maybe a little curve to it with the same start and end points.
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Like :thumbsup:
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I favor #2. It would provide the most handle to hang on to while actually using the knife. Handle fitting the user's hand is very important.
 
I would suggest loose the finger choil and shorten the ricassso substantially. Neither of those two attributes add functional values to a knife, in my opinion. And for a skinner, I suggest sweaping the whole blade upwards more, in the picture it's curved in the opposite direction. Ergonomics would be sub par when skinning.
I don't mean to trash this, just my feedback and I hope you will comment on my postings too :thumbsup:
 
I like 3

You could always keep the finger choil. Once profiled get some modeling clay and mock up a handle. See if you like it. You can always grind the choil off later if you want.
 
Scaniaman said:
I would suggest loose the finger choil and shorten the ricassso substantially. Neither of those two attributes add functional values to a knife, in my opinion. And for a skinner, I suggest sweaping the whole blade upwards more, in the picture it's curved in the opposite direction. Ergonomics would be sub par when skinning.
I don't mean to trash this, just my feedback and I hope you will comment on my postings too :thumbsup:
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Don't worry. I'm not offended by feedback even if the feedback is "its a mess, start over!"

When I made that blade my goal was to make about 10 blades of 3 or 4 different styles so I could learn to grind. So I searched around the web and found some styles that caught my eye and wound up grinding 9 blades with differing degrees of success. This one actually turned out really well. What I liked about this one was the choil and the curve to it. I figured the choil would make it easier to grip when I am skinning/gutting and the curve just looked nice to me. I see what you mean about having it sweep up more too. I guess it wouldn't be hard to remove the choil. I will think about that one.
 
These are the changes I might make. I would move the front pin a bit closer to the front to add better holding force to the front edge of the scales. I would shorten the ricasso and bring the bevel grind much higher. I tend to like a little flare at the butt for better retention. I don't think you need such a large bump behind the first finger. Also a little less droop at the tip makes for a slightly better line to my eye. These are just the changes that appeal to ME. You are making this knife for YOU. So don't take these suggestions as gospel, just something to consider.

CDXCczy.jpg
 
I like what you did i4Marc flaring the butt, extending the grind and making choil smaller.

At this point I can't flare the butt, but I will lower the choil for sure.

I would like to regrind my bevels like you have drawn, but I have that little filed spot/void? (no clue what it is called) where the cutting edge meets the ricasso. If I try to push the plunge lines back a bit and extend the bevels back and up I will have to lower the height of my blade to make that filed part go away...right?
 
You mean sharpening choil? If you already filed it in, you are going to have to regrind the bevel and lose the width of the knife. You can also finish according to your drawing and then understand why the suggestions in changing the design were made in the first place? Good luck.
 
You don't have to flare the butt because you have retention at the finger cove. You don't have to do any of it. They were just some things to consider. Here is another option to consider since you have to work with the blade you've got. In this example we're using the steel you have but moving the finger cove as far forward as we can to shorten the ricasso. We just extend the handle scales a little farther forward too. Also using the sharpening notch you have in the blade you can just bring the grind up without bringing it back so you don't need to reduce the width of your blade. Just play with it. This won't be your last knife.


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I just completed this guy today. It's close to what Marc drew above. May be a bit of inspiration for you and it's very comfortable.

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i4Marc said:
You don't have to flare the butt because you have retention at the finger cove. You don't have to do any of it. They were just some things to consider. Here is another option to consider since you have to work with the blade you've got. In this example we're using the steel you have but moving the finger cove as far forward as we can to shorten the ricasso. We just extend the handle scales a little farther forward too. Also using the sharpening notch you have in the blade you can just bring the grind up without bringing it back so you don't need to reduce the width of your blade. Just play with it. This won't be your last knife.
Click to expand...

It's funny....a year ago when I picked the blades I ground off the net, I thought they all looked so great... and I liked this one the most as a skinner at that time. Have given all the other ones I did away and saved this one. Then when I see your suggestions, I like them WAY more and this looks so....so...so plain. I really like the flow of your suggestions. If it is okay with you I would like to grind it to look like your second drawing. I've been looking at plunge lines that curve at the top like that for a while. This is a chance to learn that one!

Question....what are you using to draw with here? I have only designed 2 knives so far and both were done by hand drawing.

scott kozub said:
I just completed this guy today. It's close to what Marc drew above. May be a bit of inspiration for you and it's very comfortable.
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Inspiration. Yes, this is inspiring. Amazing work. I am just trying to get my plunge lines nice and getting control of my bevels. I build and play drums too (think rock and roll drum sets) and am able to make high quality drums....but am an average drummer. I go to drum clinics by drummers who are out of this world and am inspired and semi-depressed at the same time. What they can think and do is otherworldly and awe inspiring. But I will never approach what people like Neil Pert or Omar Hakeem can do.
Some of the knife and ideas here are so beyond me. I pick a small part of what someone has done and try to learn it, and then try to add something new. I am having fun, but am overwhelmed by the possibilities and creativity that happens.

I am very thankful for the help and encouragement I have received so far as I move slowly along my learning journey.
 
To get your plunge lines even a filing jig works really well. The good ones are costly but effective. I just made my own with a could thick pieces of 80crv2 but anything hardenable will work. The thicker the better. Someday I'll get a good one. I just don't do many plunge lines.

I've only been this a couple years and make most kitchen knives. I think what you see there is my 6th or 7th camp style knife.

Sorry for the off topic but it funny you mention neal. I'm from his home town. A coworker is the biggest Rush fan. Always wearing their shirts. We were talking one time and he casually mentioned that hes played Neil's drums many times. I was confused but then he told me Neil was his brother in law. 8 years working with him and he never mentioned it. He has a hard time talking about his sister and niece. This all came up again after neal passed away. Simply amazing what he could do.


Randydb said:
It's funny....a year ago when I picked the blades I ground off the net, I thought they all looked so great... and I liked this one the most as a skinner at that time. Have given all the other ones I did away and saved this one. Then when I see your suggestions, I like them WAY more and this looks so....so...so plain. I really like the flow of your suggestions. If it is okay with you I would like to grind it to look like your second drawing. I've been looking at plunge lines that curve at the top like that for a while. This is a chance to learn that one!

Question....what are you using to draw with here? I have only designed 2 knives so far and both were done by hand drawing.



Inspiration. Yes, this is inspiring. Amazing work. I am just trying to get my plunge lines nice and getting control of my bevels. I build and play drums too (think rock and roll drum sets) and am able to make high quality drums....but am an average drummer. I go to drum clinics by drummers who are out of this world and am inspired and semi-depressed at the same time. What they can think and do is otherworldly and awe inspiring. But I will never approach what people like Neil Pert or Omar Hakeem can do.
Some of the knife and ideas here are so beyond me. I pick a small part of what someone has done and try to learn it, and then try to add something new. I am having fun, but am overwhelmed by the possibilities and creativity that happens.

I am very thankful for the help and encouragement I have received so far as I move slowly along my learning journey.
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Randy,

You are more than welcome to use anything I suggest. That's why we are all here. To support each other and help each other to improve. We all started at the beginning and with few exceptions relied on the kindness of those more experienced.

Like Scott suggests, a file guide is one of those tools that will step your game up to another level. If you can afford a carbide faced file guide that would be the best. But like Scott, you can make them out of a lot of different steels. Pick a steel that you can harden pretty hard so it doesn't wear away too quickly with files and sanding belts tearing at it.

The program I use to clean up my drawings is just Adobe Illustrator. But if you don't have access to that or are not already using an Adobe system workflow then any free drawing program that supports Bezier curves will do the same thing. If you want to go super simple then just use regular drawing tools like pencils, paper and french curves.

If you are going to attempt a sweeping radius at the top of your plunge line for your first time I would not suggest "winging it". Take a sharpie marker or layout dye and paint that area of your blade on both sides. Take a piece of scrap Masonite board, plexiglass, sheet aluminum or similar and grind a pleasing radius into one corner. Use that as a template to scribe that radius onto your blade on both sides. This will give you a visual guide so you don't go too far and so you get pretty symmetrical sweeps on both sides.
 
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I definitely will draw it out before I try to grind it. I've watched a couple videos on doing that curved type of grind. I suppose the worst thing that happens is I screw it up and toss it. On the other hand, it may turn out well. My first grinds turned out much better that I expected...extremely well for a first try. I used a bubble jig. I know having guidelines make it wayyyyy more likely that I will stop before going too far.

Scott-interesting story about your work buddy. When I was in university I worked as a salmon fishing guide at a place that catered to the rich and famous. Thing I learned pretty fast is they were all just regular people who had personalities that were like the rest of us. They just happened to have jobs/skills that put them in the public eye. Most of the celebrities were genuinely down to earth kind normal people (Julie Andrews, Blake Edwards, Don Adams and Joe Theisman really stood out as great). The odd one was an egomaniac and treated others as less than them (I won't say names here). But if they weren't famous their personalities would. have been the same as you seen in regular society.
 
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