Shapton glass stones

joesrx

joesrx

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Oct 4, 2008
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Will these sharpen the "super steels" like M4 and 390?


thanks in advance
 
Shapton glass has 2 series of stones one is for carbon steels like Japanese knives and the other for harder (super) steels . Im not sure of the names but it will show up when you go to purchase .
 
The general consensus is that they are good up until about 3 or 4% vanadium carbide levels, after which diamonds are preferable.

Here's a relatively handy chart to check knife steel composition.
 
You're welcome. I'm sure you'll get some additional useful feedback from others who have long experience with the Shapton Glass stones.

Paging @Jason B.
 
On my Spyderco M4 (three knives) and Benchmade M390 Griptillian Ritter and 710 blue and black Knifeworks Exclusive I have had excellent results using the Shapton Glass stones made for the Edge Pro Apex.

Keeping in mind I didn't try to reprofile any of those knives. If I had I would have used coarse diamond for that.

I'm a polished edge freak (not saying true mirror) and I am very happy with the results.

PS : up to Shapton Glass 4,000 was enough polish for me. Looks very glinty to the naked eye and push cuts like a polished edge should. :thumbsup:
 
If your using a guided system get diamonds of some kind like the Venev or Matrix stones,Venev also makes dual sided bench stones as well.
I would stay clear of the Shapton Glass stones for removing metal really fast on S30V M4 M390 and S110v just to name a few use diamonds for removing metal in the lower grit's for those steel's.

Use diamonds to set your bevel on those steels,for example if you like to stop at 3K then you can stop at between a 1 and 3K diamond then use a water stone of the same grit to refine the scratch pattern.
The problem with the Shapton Glass stones is they are aluminum oxide and they can't cut vanadium carbide,but for further refining of the edge after diamonds they are fine,but that being said you would want to stop at a 1K finish on diamonds and then try and go up to a 10K finish with water stones from there,you want to get as close as you can with diamonds to your target before switching to water stones.

https://www.gritomatic.com/products/8-x-3-dual-side-bonded-diamond?_pos=9&_sid=543737caf&_ss=r

joesrx said:
Will these sharpen the "super steels" like M4 and 390?


thanks in advance
Click to expand...
 
I regularly use Shapton Glass on S90V, M390, even Maxamet,

They don;t cut as fast as diamonds, but they do cut.

I set bevels and "apex" the edge with diamonds then switch to Shapton Glass.

It works for me!:thumbsup::)
 
But the problem is Ben they don't cut the vanadium carbide that's in the those steel's it's impossible for them to do so,aluminum Oxide is softer by amount then vanadium carbide.
 
Ben Dover said:
I regularly use Shapton Glass on S90V, M390, even Maxamet,

They don;t cut as fast as diamonds, but they do cut.
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In my original post I was going to say the following but since my posts tend to be ever so tinsywincy LOOOOOOoooooonnnnng.
I elected to have mercy and to keep it short.
but
you've drawn me out :
I have had fantastic success polishing even S110V to a very polished and sharp edge using ONLY the Shapton Glass Edge Pro stones.
without taking a breath I have to say : THE EDGES WERE INFERIOR AND DID NOT LAST LONG.

The diamonds will produce a MUCH more durable and long lasting edge, at least on the polished HIGH VANADIUM, than the less hard Glass stones.

For the higher Vanadium alloys and Maxamet the Venev or Matrix stones are going to rule just as Wade has said.

PS: I don't consider 3 % . . . maaayyybe 4% to be high vanadium
but 9% (S90V and S110V) sure as hell is high vanadium.
 
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The problem is all your doing with an aluminum oxide stone with those steel's is that your sharpening around the vanadium carbide and removing the softer element's until the vanadium carbides fall out.

I know some people this forum and on facebook think it's hogwash but it's like I said to a guy on a facebook group,vanadium carbide is harder then aluminum oxide and so with your line of reasoning then is that you should be able to sharpen a peace of glass with styrofoam ,you see his line of thinking was something softer can cut something harder.

I'm not saying when 2 thing's are close to the same hardness it may not be possible to sharpen something a bit harder,but vanadium carbide is a hell of a lot harder then aluminum oxide,I don't care what anyone say's it can't be done,and the fact that me and Wowbagger get edge's that last longer with steels like S110v should say something right there and that is we cut the vanadium carbide instead of grinding away until it fell it out and that's why there is no edge retention when standard stones are used on certain super steels.
 
I have that before and I found it interesting,but the only thing I know for certain is if I use my Metallic CBN stones and the Venev OCB stones on steels that are rich with VC I get a much sharper edge and a much more long lasting edge,I the sharpest edge with S110v if it is toothy for sure.
 
If one wishes for a "toothy" ripping edge, diamonds are definitely the way to go.

For a polished, "slicing" edge, well.... not so much.
 
So if I went with diamonds, 140 to set the bevel and a 400 to start to polish. Can I finish with the Shaptons, or do I need finer grit diamonds to polish? Is the 140 to 600 in diamonds too much of a jump or do I need the 400? I'm thinking of the atomas for the edge pro.

thanks for the help
 
Ben Dover said:
If one wishes for a "toothy" ripping edge, diamonds are definitely the way to go.

For a polished, "slicing" edge, well.... not so much.
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Depends on your diamond stones, some will polish just fine.
 
joesrx joesrx If your talking about the Matrix stones I haven't used them what I use are the Metallic CBN stones and the Venev OCB stones,I often start off with a 120 then go to a 400 grit stone and I don't have a problem.

What I would suggest is if your wanting a true mirror polish go as high as you can afford with diamond to get the scratch pattern as small as possible,I some steels I have finished with a Venev 1200 witch is the same as a Japanese 8K stone then dropped back down to a 5K and 8K water stone then progressing to a Suehiro 10 or even a 20K.

joesrx said:
So if I went with diamonds, 140 to set the bevel and a 400 to start to polish. Can I finish with the Shaptons, or do I need finer grit diamonds to polish? Is the 140 to 600 in diamonds too much of a jump or do I need the 400? I'm thinking of the atomas for the edge pro.

thanks for the help
Click to expand...
 
Diemaker said:
Depends on your diamond stones, some will polish just fine.
Click to expand...

So far, I haven't been able to find diamond Edge-Pro diamond stones finer than 1200 grit. I do get good results polishing with Diamond or CBN paste on strops. CBN paste at .25 micron is truly beautiful.

Id love to have an EP diamond stone in a medium grit, perhaps 5,000, for working blades that I'm not going to polish all the way up to "show off" level.:D
 
Ben Dover said:
So far, I haven't been able to find diamond Edge-Pro diamond stones finer than 1200 grit. I do get good results polishing with Diamond or CBN paste on strops. CBN paste at .25 micron is truly beautiful.

Id love to have an EP diamond stone in a medium grit, perhaps 5,000, for working blades that I'm not going to polish all the way up to "show off" level.:D
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The Matrix stones go to 4000 grit or 5 microns. I have made them in 4, 2.5 and 1.5 micron but on steel the 5 micron leaves a better finish than the finer grits. For finer finishes I find strops work better, but be careful of the apex when trying to polish the bevel. There is a pass-around kit if you want to try them all out sometime.
 
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