Yea I have an a1 icwant to mirror.. there's some YouTube videos with s couple ppl who do it and change the geometry exactly how they want but I've never sharpened a convex grind.. waiting on it to get full and I'll go from there and learn I guess. Hopefully I'll find some cheaper knives that are similar to practice on.. yea the unified grit chart does put the uf a little below the 4000 shapton so I think your right.. that is good to know for now just trying to decide if I need something coarser then the 500 for now and if so if I can get the atoma to lap everything and sharpen and still be able to take the scratches out with the 500. Thank u all for the great advice. This forumn is very helpful
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Shapton vs naniwa
- Thread starter Gradyw
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I've been thinking of upgrading to some nice bench stones also. Great information. Thank you.
The first knife I ever mirrored was done with a Sharpmaker (w/ UF stones), and a few homemade strops loaded with different grits. It was very pretty, mirror on black washed blade. But dull as a butter knife. I ended up adding a micro bevel to keep as much mirror as possible. It held up quit well, and much longer than expected for a cheaper knife. I didn't spend hours on it....but days. [emoji51][emoji16]
Sent from my mind....using Tap-a-Thought. (tm)
The first knife I ever mirrored was done with a Sharpmaker (w/ UF stones), and a few homemade strops loaded with different grits. It was very pretty, mirror on black washed blade. But dull as a butter knife. I ended up adding a micro bevel to keep as much mirror as possible. It held up quit well, and much longer than expected for a cheaper knife. I didn't spend hours on it....but days. [emoji51][emoji16]
Sent from my mind....using Tap-a-Thought. (tm)
Haha probably rolled the apex while stropping if I had to guess. What made me more interested in a perfect mirror was sharpening a Scandinavian grind and actually being able to see a good bit of the edge.. an inch or two sharpened looks a lot different then just an eighth or a sixteenth of an edge
Jason B.
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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The Spyderco UF ceramic depending on some variables is very close to a 8k Shapton Glass waterstone. The Shapton Glass are the closest you will find to a Spyderco ceramic, its similar in that they are both ceramic abrasive and while they cut steel they also have a burnishing effect that adds to the luster and polish of the bevel.
Beyond that, they become very different stones. The Shapton Glass are very hard and dense stones but still work like a waterstone in that they release used abrasive to expose fresh sharp abrasive allowing fast metal removal.
The Shapton DGLP is a very nice tool but at $400 its not for the non-professional. This is where the Atoma 140 comes in, the Atoma has an engineered surface that works exceptionally well at lapping the surface of waterstones and provides the surface texture needed when using a high density ceramic abrasive. Surface texture is important with these stones so using a quality diamond plate really can improve the stone performance and feel. When using the Atoma 140 plate to lap the Shapton stones you can use a bit of pressure when starting out but never lean into it. As you start to come to the end of the lapping process lighten up on your pressure and float the diamond plate on the stone. This will smooth out any deep grooves in the stone created by the diamond plate and allow for smoother sharpening feedback.
Will the SG500 take out the Atoma 140 scratches? Yes, but there will come a point where any one of the following will make it more difficult... increased bevel width, increased hardness, or increased wear resistance from super hard alloys (niobium, vanadium and tungsten to name a few). For most pocket knives and average kitchen knives the 500 will quickly wipe away the Atoma scratches... using light pressure with the Atoma will also make the transition much easier.
I recommend these three stones in combo because they can and will sharpen a wide range of cutting tools from damaged and dull to semi polished and very sharp in the least steps possible.
Do you need Shapton stones to do this? Not at all, I can accomplish similar with a hardware combo stone and a strop but that's because the skill will always trump the tool. So why do I recommend the Shaptons? I recommend the Shaptons because they take away the variables that cheap sharpening tools add into the mix. The closely graded ceramic abrasive, consistent feel, consistent sharpening action and finished sharpness all make for process that is faster, easier, and less stressful for the beginner. These stones simply produce results without fuss.
Beyond that, they become very different stones. The Shapton Glass are very hard and dense stones but still work like a waterstone in that they release used abrasive to expose fresh sharp abrasive allowing fast metal removal.
The Shapton DGLP is a very nice tool but at $400 its not for the non-professional. This is where the Atoma 140 comes in, the Atoma has an engineered surface that works exceptionally well at lapping the surface of waterstones and provides the surface texture needed when using a high density ceramic abrasive. Surface texture is important with these stones so using a quality diamond plate really can improve the stone performance and feel. When using the Atoma 140 plate to lap the Shapton stones you can use a bit of pressure when starting out but never lean into it. As you start to come to the end of the lapping process lighten up on your pressure and float the diamond plate on the stone. This will smooth out any deep grooves in the stone created by the diamond plate and allow for smoother sharpening feedback.
Will the SG500 take out the Atoma 140 scratches? Yes, but there will come a point where any one of the following will make it more difficult... increased bevel width, increased hardness, or increased wear resistance from super hard alloys (niobium, vanadium and tungsten to name a few). For most pocket knives and average kitchen knives the 500 will quickly wipe away the Atoma scratches... using light pressure with the Atoma will also make the transition much easier.
I recommend these three stones in combo because they can and will sharpen a wide range of cutting tools from damaged and dull to semi polished and very sharp in the least steps possible.
Do you need Shapton stones to do this? Not at all, I can accomplish similar with a hardware combo stone and a strop but that's because the skill will always trump the tool. So why do I recommend the Shaptons? I recommend the Shaptons because they take away the variables that cheap sharpening tools add into the mix. The closely graded ceramic abrasive, consistent feel, consistent sharpening action and finished sharpness all make for process that is faster, easier, and less stressful for the beginner. These stones simply produce results without fuss.
thanks again jayson.. if I have the uf and go with the 500 and 2k shapton what would be a good stone in between that that would give me the most use.. I know you've said the 2k is good enough but as far as a mirrored very refined edge what else should I throw in there? Maybe none and just save my money probably haha.
Jason I am curious how u figure the uf is close to an 8k grit shapton? I believe u just because of all the knowledge I see u sharing with everyone all over the forumn but the unified grit chart says it's. Closer to a 4K? Is the chart wrong or am I reading it wrong
View attachment 689320 Freehanding is easier with an adjustable stone holder.
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The grit chart shows approximate grit sizes. It isn't 100% accurate because more goes into a sharpening media than just the size of the cutting particles. Much of this "secret sauce" stuff is proprietary, and in some cases, even the manufacturer isn't 100% why their particular product works the way it does. In the case of the Spyderco UF stone, much of the love it receives from us sharpening nuts is from its burnishing effect. It is polishing not just from its grit, but from the properties of the materials that are holding the grit in suspension.
You can't really put a number on this variable.
To the untrained eye, you won't see much of a difference between the 4k Shapton and the 8k Shapton or the Spyderco UF bench stone. I don't see much of a difference, but I still go through the progression in an OCD kinda way.
You can't really put a number on this variable.
To the untrained eye, you won't see much of a difference between the 4k Shapton and the 8k Shapton or the Spyderco UF bench stone. I don't see much of a difference, but I still go through the progression in an OCD kinda way.
Well zatz that might be one of the most useful things I read about 4K and up not really making much a difference to the untrained eye.. guess there's no reason to get one unless I get all.. I'll hold back and just buy the important ones for now and post my results in a couple weeks when I get them since I'll be waiting until then
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Buying a couple in "key" grits is really the smarter way to go. I chose the less smart way and bought every grit. The problem with this method, besides the cost, is that when an issue crops up it is harder to diagnose the cause due to there being too many variables.
Get good with the 500 and 2000 and you'll better to be able judge what stone you want next from your own personal experience.
Well honestly my current setup I have with dmts and the uf spyderco I have had really good results... only thing that makes me want a change is the coarse sctratches from dmt.. that and I've been interested in waterstones for awhile now just figured dmts would be easier to start on
Not only that but to me it looks like I will get a lot better feel for it.. I have duosharp dmt and it can be hard to sharpen tips on those and they feel very rough sometimes.. I want more of a smooth sharpen if that even makes sense or if there even is that much of a difference from diamond to water
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There is a huge difference.
I started on DMT's and then went to Shapton Glass. Much smoother cut and feel.