Sharp as a Peanut?

S

SubSpace

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May 26, 2011
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I've been doing test cuts (paper push cuts) with my new GEC White Owl and comparing it to other knives I have. The Owl came rather dull from the factory and I've been using my Sharpmaker to bring it slowly but surely to where I like my blades to be. I don't get anything hair shaving sharp. As long as it can push cut paper, that's sharp enough for me.

My Peanut just does it better.

Is this due to the thinness of the Peanut clip blade vs the White Owl blade? Or can I expect the same performance from both if I keep at it on the Sharpmaker (I am awful at sharpening free-hand. I've tried it. It's not pretty)? I guess I'm asking, inexperienced as I am, if the effortless feeling I get from the Peanut is based on blade thickness, rather than actual sharpness.

I've got the thinner pen blade on my White Owl performing as well as the nut. But my logical mind tells me I'm just not getting the clip as sharp as it should be. I'm afraid to keep going at it on the Sharpmaker for fear of eventually wrecking the blade, but each time I do use it, the blade is noticeably sharper.
Just not Peanut sharp.

Apologies if I should have posted this in maintenance. Just figured I'd get the best replies here, given the specific traditional blades.
 
The very thin blade accounts for much of the slicing magic. I've noticed it with mine, too. The edge itself, on mine, doesn't necessarily pop hairs as well, or better, than many of my other knives. But my Peanut's clip blade, especially, goes through paper like a laser beam. Might also have the most dangerous tip I've seen on a knife (narrow, pointy and thin, all in one).

I've also noticed the advantage of thin blades on paring knives, when slicing fruits & vegetables. Even with relatively dull edges, a thin blade seems to do much better, slicing an apple, than a thicker one with a sharper edge.
 
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The peanut spoiled me too in that way, and i think the thin blade is to blame. Though if you drop down the bevel a few degrees on that thick blade, it should cut way better, and push cut through paper easily.
Same thing happened to me with a queen serpentine jack, which i did sharpen eventually to push cut paper, but still, the peanut was cutting better, some materials that is, like apples for instance. The jack was now performing admirably, and the paper was no match. But then i had the thing brought to peanut level, and now it performs even better.
factory edge,
IMG_7281.jpg

My work, also with the sharpmaker, used the 30 degrees slot only, till i could make a 40 degrees microbevel
IMG_7328.jpg

and finally, the thin regrind to match the peanut, (not by me though :D) now sharpened to a 40 degrees microbevel
IMG_7353.jpg

IMG_1191.jpg
 
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Thank you, David and Jacktrades. I had a feeling the difference I was feeling was due to blade thickness, as I am somewhat competent with the sharpmaker. I have, however, only ever used the 40 degree angle. Looking at Jacktrades example, I'm tempted to try a 30 degree.

But I am rather gun-shy. Or blade-shy, as the case may be.
 
use the sharpie trick when you do the 30 degrees angle, at least to figure out how much work there is to be done for achieving a 30 degrees primary bevel.
draw the edge with a sharpie, and make a couple passes on the 30 degrees set stones, then check the sharpie marks.
or maybe the angle of your blade is bigger, so its worth a try on the 40 degrees slot with the sharpie trick, see where you are hitting with the stones.
also, a magnifying glass would help a lot.
 
SubSpace said:
Thank you, David and Jacktrades. I had a feeling the difference I was feeling was due to blade thickness, as I am somewhat competent with the sharpmaker. I have, however, only ever used the 40 degree angle. Looking at Jacktrades example, I'm tempted to try a 30 degree.

But I am rather gun-shy. Or blade-shy, as the case may be.
Click to expand...

Even putting a gentle convex on an edge makes a big difference. Much of the resistance encountered in slicing is due to the shape of the steel behind the edge. I used an older Case Folding Hunter to shred a cardboard box a while back, and the edge on the secondary (skinner) blade made short work of it, with a convexed edge. I then tried some of the same with the clip blade on my Queen stockman (Cattle King), which has a very, very sharp V-bevel, and noticed a lot more resistance in the cardboard. In spite of this blade being both smaller and thinner and very sharp at the EDGE, the slicing advantage of the convexed edge on the Case became immediately apparent there. Now, I'm considering convexing my Queen stockman. ;)
 
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Convexing is a great idea, but im not very prolific in that particular area, and that is why i stick to the v edges. Sharpening freehand does put a slightly convex edge though.
Subspace, here are many kind and helpful people that can put a beautiful edge on your knife, one you can maintain easily with the sharpmaker or a strop. If you don't want to risk damaging the blade, or wasting a lot of time on the sharpmaker stones, i would contact someone about it.
After all, mine was reground by someone else in the end. Not as rewarding, but it works :D
 
Actually, the reason I like convexing the most is the simplicity of it. On small, thin blades especially, a few edge-trailing passes on something like 400-600 grit wet/dry paper, on firm-but-forgiving backing, like leather, can do it quickly. Exactly like stropping, but at coarser grit. Just enough to smooth & round off the shoulders of the bevel. If the edge is already very sharp from previous methods, it's even quicker, as you really don't need to even touch the edge itself. It can obviously take a little more time, requiring more grit stages, if one wants to minimize scratches on the blade from the sandpaper and polish the convex. But for a working edge, it can be done very easily.
 
The blade profile of the peanut is a lot like the old Schrade Old Timer pocket knives. A long flat grind on a thin blade. To get that kind of cutting performance from another knife, you will have to drop down the angle on the sharpening stone. A thinner edge is needed. Look at the Old Timer middleman jacks, and you will notice a real similar blade profile.

Carl.
 
I've convexed the wharncliffe main blades on my two whittlers and they're now hungry 'lil buggers.

queendanburkehalfwhittl.jpg


- Christian
 
The key to making a double bevel edge with a Sharpmaker is to buy the coarse diamond sticks. It takes FOREVER to grind that factory bevel away otherwise.

Another trick, although less sophisticated, is to use one of those cheap kitchen pull-through sharpeners to cut the 30 degree angle. The carbide blades of those sharpeners remove steel QUICKLY. Then, follow up with the coarse ceramic rods in the same sharpener. Now, you have that narrow angle ground without hours and hours at the Sharpmaker.

Next, upgrade to the Sharpmaker to finish off the 30 degree part, and finally, go to the 40 degree primary bevel.

I just received the diamond sticks for the Sharpmaker yesterday, so I'll let you know how it pans out. If they cut fast enough, I can skip the cheap kitchen sharpener step in the future.
 
I've noticed the effect that blade thickness has on cutting ability also, my CV Peanut and SBJ can take a fairly sharp edge that still isn't quite as sharp as say my Buck 301 and still out preform it in terms of cutting however, a thicker blade can come in handy in certain instances however I've never seen the need. I wish that Buck would return to the older thinner blade profile instead of this thickish hollow ground profile they use now.
 
I've always gotten a kick out of watching Jacques Pepin's cooking show on PBS. The guy's a master with a paring knife, and it's no surprise to me that he uses very thin blades. Great fun to watch him dice up an onion, or some mushrooms or whatever. Goes through them like he was slicing warm butter.
 
First off, I'd say do the sharpie trick and continue sharpening as you were to see if you were even hitting the edge. My guess is that you weren't. The brown stones should bring that GEC from tearing paper, to shaving arm hair in two minutes or less if you are actually hitting the edge. My only GEC is the 2011 forum knife. It came quite sharp, but with an edge too obtuse for the sharpmaker to hit. I'm slowly bringing it to a thirty degree edge on the sharpmaker, but when it needs sharpening I modify my technique to match the obtuse edge, usually just needing ten passes on the white stones to bring it back to shaving sharp. I just try and do triple the number of passes on the lower angle on the brown stones every time I sharpen. It'll get there...

I mean, I sharpened a modern knife with one of those crazy wear resistant super steels from roughly slicing paper to shaving arm hair in about a minute on the brown stones the other day. Anything GEC makes should sharpen easier.
 
I have my Peanut in SS sometimes as an EDC. Nice knife, so far.

The blade geometry is like a scalpel. I use the 40 degrees on the sharpmaker getting it sharp, like with most of my other knives. Using both stones (grey and white) let the Peanut getting razorsharp. But it also let every other knife extremely sharp. Imho that´s no cause of how to sharpen it, it´s more because of the scalpel-like bladegeometry.

Most of my knives can get razorsharp, but I usually keep them on a sharp, but not razorsharp edge.


Kind regards
Andi
 
hello,
in my opinion the blade geometry has a lot to do with the cutting capability, but only in cutting throught materials, because a blade too thick will wedge into the material instead of cleanly going throught it.
BUT... in push cutting paper I think It's only a matter of pure sharpness, for example my endura 4 saber grind finished with 6000 grit and strop cuts print and phonebook paper like mad, much better than a boker barlow finished with the ceramic side of a fallkniven dc4. However the Endura hasn't got any chance with an apple against the full flat grind less than 2mm thick blade of the barlow.

I've seen a gransfors&brooks axe push cut print paper with no effort in a ray mears video.
regards, Lute
 
I believe it's a combination of sharpness and blade thinness. Also in my experience it is easier to sharpen thin smaller blades evenly.
 
Thin blades are key - try an Opinel for slicing they really excel. It may also be a question of the steel used too. CASE cv and ss seem softer than GEC's carbon, this may explain the sharpening difficulties.
 
willgoy said:
Thin blades are key - try an Opinel for slicing they really excel. It may also be a question of the steel used too. CASE cv and ss seem softer than GEC's carbon, this may explain the sharpening difficulties.
Click to expand...

:thumbup::thumbup:

Very few knives out there will slice and dice like an Opinel right off the stone, regardless of cost. In the early 1980's Bill Moran was into the Opinels and did them up with his trademark silver wire inlays and handle shaping. He used then as an example of how a blade should be profiled. Al his blades were convex ground. I still keep an Opinel or two around for cutting jobs just for yuks. Old time funky design combined with real world cutting above and beyond what a lot of high end knives will do.

Carl.
 
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