Sharpen/Carry your nice vintage pockeknives?

[paulhilborn]

Wow Blues that bone on that Winchester is absolutely terrific:thumbup: Gorgeous knife indeed!!!

Paul

 

[Doug Add]

Is this place great or what? I could never afford a beauty like that Elliott, but I can enjoy looking at yours, thanks!

 

[Blues]

Thanks, gents. The funny thing is that we were walking past a display case where the knife was all the way in a back corner set on its spine between other knives. All i could see was that it "appeared" to be a single backspring knife with two blades. When I asked the purveyor to show me the knife, he, Charlie and I were all pretty much floored. (The vendor indicated that you don't see many of the Winchesters in that condition and we confirmed same with an expert or two on site.)

The knife wasn't terribly expensive by vintage standards, it was more or less in line with what one might pay for one of the Case-Bose collaborations. Having a piece of history like this Winchester and getting to appreciate the catch-bit construction, steel and beautiful bone made it worth the price of admission for me. I don't have a great number of vintage knives but the ones I do have all hearken back to some of the classics of the periods involved even if most are not necessarily in this near mint condition.

 

[DrPenguin]

Im starting to accumulate a few nice old Case XX knives, not because of some sort of colletible investment its just what I like. But the question now is, do you keep these very nice knives in as found condition or sharpen and carry them?

For me it depends on the knife but I don't hold it against anyone one way or the other.

I have maybe 5 Case XX from the 65-69 era and they are all close to mint and never sharpened. I haven't sharpened them myself or carried them since I purchased them. If I were to buy a vintage knife that had previously been carried I wouldn't worry a bit about using it and would carry it with pride. But one that has made it this far as mint? I usually wouldn't.

Will

 

[eisman]

To me a knife without an edge is like a gun without bullets; a paperweight.

 

[Blues]

To me a knife without an edge is like a gun without bullets; a paperweight.

 

[richstag]

To me a knife without an edge is like a gun without bullets; a paperweight.

I would rather have a sharp knife that lasts 30 years than a dull knife for 100

Im impartial on this one though. I agree with Jake about preserving history and I also agree with using the less than mint ones.

Although, I doubt I could bring myself to do either.

 

[pinnah]

I put them to use, always. But I'm not a collector.

+1

I totally agree with this.

I understand collecting, academically. But it's not for me.

 

[Blues]

I would rather have a sharp knife that lasts 30 years than a dull knife for 100

Im impartial on this one though. I agree with Jake about preserving history and I also agree with using the less than mint ones.

Although, I doubt I could bring myself to do either.

The thing is, I don't think that by merely sharpening the edge one has ruined what otherwise might be an excellent example of a vintage knife. (I am not referring to compromising whatever value it might command in the marketplace if left untouched.)

For example, many fine examples of older vintage knives have an edge which has either dulled over time due to light usage or exposure to the elements (oxidation).
Since the original edges put on by the factory cannot be properly evaluated in such cases, I see no real harm being done by putting a fine edge on the knife.

The fact that one does sharpen the knife does not imply that one is going to be reckless in its handling or use. One can still be a responsible custodian for the vintage knife while enjoying what it offers.
I don't think that anyone could be dismayed by the edge I put on the Winchester (above). It merely took a semi-sharp knife to one that can show off a little.
The student of cutlery history would not miss a thing by my having done so. By the same token I wouldn't consider the knife for rough usage.

So, outside of "market value" and "book prices" I really don't think that it's so completely a matter of one side or the other. There is room for both responsible ownership and enjoyment.

In the end it boils down to personal preference.

 

[Doug Add]

I understand collecting, academically. But it's not for me.

I'm with you Dave. I understand the argument for preserving history that was articulated last time we discussed this. A good friend of mine is the president of our county's historical society, and they have done some remarkable work gathering information and artifacts.

This is an important part of the knife hobby, but it's not what I'm in it to do. I will gladly leave those collector level knives to others who can carry on this vital function. Me, I just buy the ones I like to put into service (I can't afford the mint ones anyhow!).

 

[richstag]

The thing is, I don't think that by merely sharpening the edge one has ruined what otherwise might be an excellent example of a vintage knife. (I am not referring to compromising whatever value it might command in the marketplace if left untouched.)

For example, many fine examples of older vintage knives have an edge which has either dulled over time due to light usage or exposure to the elements (oxidation).
Since the original edges put on by the factory cannot be properly evaluated in such cases, I see no real harm being done by putting a fine edge on the knife.

The fact that one does sharpen the knife does not imply that one is going to be reckless in its handling or use. One can still be a responsible custodian for the vintage knife while enjoying what it offers.
I don't think that anyone could be dismayed by the edge I put on the Winchester (above). It merely took a semi-sharp knife to one that can show off a little.
The student of cutlery history would not miss a thing by my having done so. By the same token I wouldn't consider the knife for rough usage.

So, outside of "market value" and "book prices" I really don't think that it's so completely a matter of one side or the other. There is room for both responsible ownership and enjoyment.

In the end it boils down to personal preference.

I agree with you. I guess I am thinking of the knives handed down to me. I like to see the edges my grandparent's put on them. I think in this case its about the sentimental value. I am pretty much a use it or don't person though. The knives in my collection were all accumulated for use, and any unused are simply because I have way too many. If I was to walk into a yard sale and find a 100 year old vintage knife that is in "the day it was new condition" I would most definitely find a collector that is dedicated to preserving these pieces. I would give it to them for the price I found it for, assuming they wanted it.

I would not trust myself to preserve something to the level a museum would. Then again, I would like to see nearly worn out knives in a museum. I just love knives. I think it comes down to why someone appreciates a knife, like you said. I don't own any vintage knives that do not have sentimental value. The one Case 62087 that I polished the patina off of when I was under ten years old, was the worst mistake I ever made.

I hope that came out to make some sense.

Kevin

 

[Blues]

Makes perfect sense, Kevin. It also makes me wish that I hadn't lost all the pocket knives given to me by my grandfather over 50 years ago. (Did every pair of jeans and dungarees I had as a kid have holes in the pockets? It sure seems so.)

 

[richstag]

Yeah, that is sad to hear. You still have all the memories though

 

[festerfromnzed]

This well used big old knife gets used too....pure nostalgia that feels great in the hand..........FES

 

[Rick]

Since we're discussing tools vs. collectibles here, it's nice that those who are inclined to carry and use antique pocketknives can save a bundle on old knives by avoiding more or less mint specimens. Specimens that will lose most of their considerable value as soon as you drive them off the showroom floor unless they're meticulously preserved.

Tool buyers don't need to waste all that extra cash on rare and finite historical heirlooms that still have their original glaze and/or crocus factory finishes. There are tens of thousands of solid and perfectly serviceable old working knives available that have already been used, sharpened and patinaed, so there's no need to ruin (from an historical preservation standpoint) a rare old knife that has managed to survive for a half century or more with its original finish still intact.

And if "ruin" seems overstated, take a look at one of the GEC or Case CV (etc.) EDC threads. The factory finishes on well used carbon steel blades and springs are as fleeting as the morning mist, but the old finishes will never be duplicated (how many modern factories are prepared to painstakingly renew their giant walrus hide-covered wooden polishing wheels every night?).

The primary difference between a rare and valuable mint antique collectible and a common affordable old user lies in the preservation of its original blade finish. The passage of time alters the context of old well preserved knives from cheap common tools to rare and fragile examples of cutlery's rich and fascinating history.

 

[bakerg2g]

I enjoy carrying some of my old knives. But of course there's a few that I wouldn't carry because of it's condition or the pattern is a
hard one to find. But all in all I enjoy carrying and using old knives they're just made so much better and they hold an edge better....imho
I carry this old Remington jack but I wouldn't carry this old Camillus made 4- blade Cattle knife.

Jason

 

[tomsch]

Not mint but in great shape. This one does see some pocket time on and off and is really a great knife with excellent F&F.

 

[quattromori]

Rick,
when I was reading your post, I was thinking about something.
I don't know enough about old knives (and I'm not talking about American pocketknives...the same applies to Sardinian knives) to know whether a knife is just old or if it's valuable (in terms of collecting, and preservation of the history of cutlery). I don't know enough, and I don't know if I ever will.
I do have huge respect towards those who have a knowledge of the matter, and therefore are able of discerning and eventually preserving. And I love seeing those knives, when those among us who own them decide to share pictures and knowledge.
I'm not good at that...that's why I own (and carry) new or very recent knives, that only have a "historic" value in the history of my life. Still, I believe that there are indeed many features of old vintage pocketknives that should be brought back to life in modern cutlery for the happiness and enjoyment of people like me.

Fausto

 

[300Bucks]

Counterpoint, sort of.....

A knife collector is not someone that can be easily defined. If you read this thread, and most of the others like it from the past, the 'user' point of view is in the majority by a large margin. I like old users also. But I pick my poison.

There are collectors that like to have knives for many 'real' reasons. There are folks who just like having a drawer of full of old and likely valuable knives. Just like the guys who have a dozen vintage cars in a barn that get driven once a year. Or the folks that liked the idea of carrying a different knife every few days and the situation got out of hand and now there aren't enough days on the calendar to get them all carried. Anyway I use these examples just to show that a collector is not just
a person that has a mint knife with full undamaged box as a collector item.

In my case I started small and I discovered there were slight variations of what I thought was just a single kind of knife. I ended up with the start of a specific lineage of knives that was turning into a collection of examples of all quality types over the models production life. More of a history collection than the alluded to 'mint in box' collector version. I then went to a knife show and got pulled(hooked might be a better word) into the 'knife show society' and decided to try for a complete lineage of ONE line of knives to display. Some were used and some were in pretty good shape. If I came across a better one I felt I could afford I would replaced the used one. So, in my opinion to define me as a collector you have to use the loose definition. Lots of my stuff is not MIB, nor do I care it is or isn't. If I was holding out for MIB I would be on a quest that would be difficult, expensive and longer than my life likely is. So, today I declare myself not as a MIB collector but as a knife historian/collector. I seldom have in my EDC cigar box more than 8 to 10 knives at a time. About once or twice a year I may completely change whats in the box. But, I have my set of 300s I take to knife shows and display. Then I have some others that will likely never make the display, but will likely show up in threads on this forum, published articles in the BCCI newletter and who knows maybe there is a book hanging in the air somewhere (don't hold your breath). Am I a collector ?, sort of yes but I am going to call myself also a knife historian. MIB box is nice but there are a couple of 300s that were sold in the 80's that cost less that $20 but dang it they only made a few of them before changing the design. Scratched, sharpened, no box, even a little rusty and I would be tickled pink to find one. So be careful defining a 'collector' by MIB.

I currently am carrying a 1960s 303, a 1985 309 and a WW2 TL-29. Speaking in 60's talk....hey man, do your own thing.......neither way is better than the other....300Bucks


In my knife world THIS is the REAL reality......

 

[supratentorial]

Can someone show me a mint condition Remington 5-blade sowbelly? I can find plenty of meticulously preserved Case Classic Sowbellies that were made in the 90s by Queen on contract for Case. But none that are the real deal. Does a mint 5-blade Remington Sowbelly exist? Or was the last one used up? ...never to be seen again?

I'd like to have one custom made based on an original... but I've never seen a well preserved real one so it's not possible.