Sharpened Pry Bar

I don't know what kind of Koolaid you guys who say they areNot sharpened pry bars. They are. They are built very robustly. Check out the Custom Chopper thread in the Custom knives forums here on BF: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/681316-Show-me-your-custom-camp-knife-chopper.

That said I love the thickness of busses as you can customize the bevel to your liking.

I don't see anyone in that thread even mentioning the thickness behind the edge. Nor do I see extensive testing on a variety of materials. If we assume they are significantly thinner at the edge and not seeing drastic deformation of the edge then they set a standard that makes every production knife out there look like a brick let alone a pry bar. However they seem to be made from stock just as thick as any Busse, which to me makes them just as much of a pry bar. It would be interesting to actually collect the data(thickness behind the edge, edge and grind angles, stock thickness); some of that data is there but most of it is missing.
 
Knight, Foster, Lamey, Bagwell, DesRosiers, etc... Make really nice 'choppers'. Having owned many I can tell you that even a thinned edge mistress will under perform against a perfectly balanced Knight which has a very aggressive edge and distil taper. But Keep in mind these knives are WOOD ONLY. I would never use one for anything abusive. That's where Busse comes in handy.
 
They are sharpened pry bars.....The most awesome sharpened pry bars ever!!!

+3:thumbup:

And I love them for it.

If you love them enough, you can turn them into extremely sharp prybars.
The Scrapyard Regulator is about 1.5" wide with a 15 degrees (inclusive) primary bevel (My Busse Tank Buster is around there as well), just strip the blade and sharpen flat (or nearly flat) with the primary bevel and you have a knife as sharp as anything out there.

(Scrapyard Regulator, stock V.S. thinned.)
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"sharpened prybar" is subjective. Some will say a 1/16" machete can't be a sharpened prybar because it's too thin at the spine, it's thinness gaurentee's it'll act like it's sharp. Others will say that it's a sharpened prybar because it's primary grind is only 1/2" tall and it's 1/16" thick right behind the edge, thus wood has to be spread apart 1/16" very, very quickly - so it acts like a prybar in use.

In both definitions, with busse combat it varies depending on the model you choose. There are shbm's with very thin edges at 1/4" thick spine, and then theres the public defender with an incredibly thick edge at a 3/16" thick spine. Then you have the CABS with a thin spine and thing edge.

The thinnest edge I've seen was around .020" on the cabs, where the cgbj is between .060" and .070". The TTKZ starts with a .051" edge, but ends up at .250" in one inch. Thats a lot of thickness to be gained in such a short distance, wood has to spread apart a great deal very quickly. It is closer to a heavy axe grind than what most would think of when they think of knives. It depends on the model.

So what happens when you bring INFI to a super thin edge and really wail on it on a hard object (like frozen wood)?
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...ozen-wood-vs-sarsquatch-The-wood-won-by-a-lot
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that said, you could have gotten this out of a thicker edge, wailing on similarly hard woods (except not frozen):
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Those are two examples of gross failure, likely due to residual stresses in the blade that are not the norm across all examples within their lines. But it shows on a macro level what is likely to happen on the micro edge level with steels that are less tough, though may have greater edge stability at thin cross sections. When they are pushed to their limit, they chip, fracture, shatter or otherwise fail without a lot of deformation. INFI will tend roll, mash and dent, and then finally tear away from the blade rather than shooting off it in a stress relieving chip.

INFI is a give and take, you get high levels of ever aspect of steel quality, but you don't get perfect scores in anything. There are steels with more stable edges at thin cross sections - but they will chip where INFI will bend. There are steels that have higher corrosion resistence, but are not as strong, etc. Cliff tended to bring his INFI edges down pretty thin, and seemed to like the results. He also tended to be pretty specific in how he used his knives, being aware, watching for, and noting knots and other potential hazards that could destroy thinned edges. If your willing to work with the potential damages, INFI can be brought down to a very thin edge, but it will tend to ripple and roll because thats what it's designed to do.
 
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picture speaks for itself, even the big beasts makes the stick feather nice and easy!
 
Sorry for the delay, work and Christmas shopping have been driving me crazy. I did a quick check with my calipers on a BAD (Busse Active Duty, full flat grind, lots of distal taper, hardened more than usual, around 61 - 62 HRC or so). The edge was 0.03 inch thick at the shoulder, which was about 0.04 inches back from the cutting edge, the max spine thickness measured 0.13 inches.

This is one that I like to use for small tasks, although the edge holding isn't as good as I was hoping, it's a very efficient cutter, and I plan on thinning it out even more. The hardness should make it strong enough, but I won't be batonning with it. I fully expect the edge holding to improve once I thin it out. Yes, you read that correctly... Less force required for cutting, less edge deformation.

I'll try to get to some of my big choppers tonight if possible. While the large Busses are ground thick (for reasons that I agree with), they aren't thicker than most of my other choppers, Cold Steel, HI, Becker, etc. I usually thin them out on my belt sander, if they start to roll, a microbevel generally takes care of that. I agree that INFI is a great steel for this application, it isn't magical. My very first Busse (SH-E) that I bought about 10 years ago, I tested it by chopping a bottlecap in half sitting on a 2x4. That was something people used to do back then - for the life of me, I don't remember why. It was the first cut with the knife, stock grind (the old half and half, remember that one?). Anyway, that one chop wasn't very hard, and it put a nice ripple in the edge. It sharpened out easily, but it just goes to show you that the laws of physics apply to everything, and are self enforcing. INFI might take less damage than most other steels, but it's certainly possible to damage it if you try...
 
Knight, Foster, Lamey, Bagwell, DesRosiers, etc... Make really nice 'choppers'. Having owned many I can tell you that even a thinned edge mistress will under perform against a perfectly balanced Knight which has a very aggressive edge and distil taper. But Keep in mind these knives are WOOD ONLY. I would never use one for anything abusive. That's where Busse comes in handy.


I own a Foster Blue Collar Camp Knife, and would agree with your comment, but let me relate an anecdote. Several years ago Ban and some of his Bay Area friends gathered to chop up some 2x4 and 2x6 lumber in Ban's shop. One member (justabuyer?) brought a forged knife from well known smith (not named above). His knife suffered major damage, blew out a chunk of the edge. I wonder if that maker had a good warranty?
 
Some wood just does not want to be cut (@0:29):

[video=youtube_share;Onorx2E0R8Y]http://youtu.be/Onorx2E0R8Y[/video]
 
Whatever that is, I don't think we have it in South Carolina, thankfully.
 
For Scandinavian Evergreen Wood I have never come across anything like that stump ... that was some really "hard" wood ... usually those species have comparatively soft wood ???

.... a stump like that is well worth coming back for to take out as a chopping block !! Two pounds of plastic explosive and some shaped charges might make a dint in the roots !! :D
 
Ok, measured one of my Busse's, an NO-E, NIB (that's a Natural Outlaw w/ergo handle, new in box for you newbies), and it's v grind shoulder is 0.1 inch back from the cutting edge, and the thickness is between 0.05 and 0.06, much closer to the 0.06, but it will be an estimate, say 0.058 or so. That's the best that I can do with the calipers and my shaky hands. I believe this model is 0.25 thick at the spine, and I'm not sure what the width is, I should have checked that, but forgot to do so. This blade is coated, so the thickness is a little overstated.

It's thicker than the BAD, but I don't consider these sharpened pry bars, and I happen to like sharpened pry bars as well as efficient cutters - there's room for everyone in my collection! :D

As I said before, I'm not a big fan of the half convex edge. What I've done on some of my users is to match the edge angle on my EP with the flat side, flip the blade over, and grind away until I have a v grind. It is asymmetrical, just like the half convex, but then I concentrate my sharpening on the original flat side as much as possible, with the intent of eventually moving the edge to the center. It also thins the grind out somewhat. After 10 or so years, I'm not even close - this steel doesn't require much sharpening!

Febeleh, sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, I've been burned pretty bad loaning knives out, I limit it these days to folks that I know very well, and Me2 and I have known each other for a long time. Nothing personal.
 
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