Sharpened Prybars vs Axes

Marion David Poff

Marion David Poff

Joined
Oct 8, 1998
Messages
5,403
Ok, Please forgive me the teaser line.

This is the debate topic.

Axes vs Heavy Duty Knives.

Weigh in with your opinion.

Axes can do most all of it, our American Ancestors pretty much proved that.

Heavy Duty Knives can do it all, I think.

Let's talk intelligently about this.

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Marion David Poff aka Eye
Coeur D'Alene, ID
mdpoff@hotmail.com
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Meadows/1770

"We will either find a way, or make one." Hannibal, 210 B.C.

http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Meadows/1770/worsthuntingdog.html

 
For what its worth when I am splitting wood for kindling for the stove (which we use alot here in the north) I prefer my CS trailmaster. Its easier to use safer strikes with gloves on and etc.
 
I prefer the large knife, Busse Steelheart II. I have better control then with an ax. Better control makes for lesser chance of injury, plus I still have the versitility of utility knife usage.
 
IMO, there's room for both plus other tools depending on the task at hand. I go through 4-5 cords of wood every year at our camp. A chainsaw turns large deadfall into 18" or so long logs. An ax, splitting maul, or sledge + wedges reduces the rounds into firewood. When I want kindling, I reach for a HI AK or WWII khukuri. Since using khukuris, I haven't once reached for a hatchet.

Now all of this presumes use at a fixed location w/o storage space or weight as considerations. If I were packing in somewhere for a limited time, I'd probably just bring a large khuk. It can do just about anything that might be required of it in a camping/survival situation.

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Cheers,

--+Brian+--

I may be goin' to hell in a bucket, Babe, but at least I'm enjoyin' the ride.


 
Doesn't the longer handle on an axe give you more leverage, making the work much easier so that you tire less easily?



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Hoodoo

This time, like all times, is a very good one, if we but know what to do with it.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
 
IMHO, a large knife (e.g., a Battle Mistress), has the best of both worlds-->a hatchet and knife all rolled into one package. Hoodoo has a point about the handle of an axe offering leverage. I see the section of a long blade having the same advantage if one uses the "sweet spot" as the axe head.

-Greg

[This message has been edited by grnamin (edited 26 November 1999).]
 
I know this is the answer that ruins all questions but; It depends on the task.

There are some jobs the knife could not handle and some tasks that the axe could not. For example: try skinning a deer or filleting a fish with a full sized double headed axe. Or how about chopping down a full sized oak with your 10" bowie knife.
Also, are there any restrictions in this debate, such as needing to pack lightly. If not, you should have both at hand.

I dont think you can compare the two, they are two completely different tools. It's like asking which is better a SAK or a chainsaw; Better for what? Just my oppinion.
smile.gif


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Louis Buccellato
http://www.themartialway.com
Knives, Weapons and equipment. Best prices anywhere.
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"only the paranoid will survive":)


 
Do you remember the scene in "The Search for the Holy Grail" where King Arthur and Sir Bedivere are commanded to chop down the largest tree in the forest with a herring?

A Battle Mistress or an Ang Khola may chop well for knives, but try and compare them to a 3 pound single bit axe. Some axes also make excellent hammers. Not so a knife.

Choose the proper tool for the job, and don't forget, large knives like Bowies and Kukris are first and foremost combat weapons, not practical tools.

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People who don't like knives should be condemned to using sporks for all eternity.
 
It's all about compromise. A big knife Can do it all. And a good axe can do most of it. But is Either the optimal tool?

A big knife has some pretty serious drawbacks such as weight, carryability, concealability, and is often just Too big for most routine cutting tasks.

The axe has all of these problems and is even more restricted in its abilities. But it is the Best tool for chopping large pieces of wood.

I almost never need either an axe (or hatchet) or a knife longer than about 5 inches. I often carry a 'large' 4-5 inch fixed blade while camping, fishing, and hiking. And I like to have along a smaller 2.5 to 3.5 inch fixed or folding blade. For extended camping, I like to have a smaller axe along as well.

I am interested in the Khukuri vs Bowie knife question however. It seems like the Khukuri has some definite advantages as a general purpose tool.

The 'Big' knife can do it all. But can you really say is the optimal tool for every situation? And when are we normally restricted to carrying only a single tool?

Paracelsus
 
M.D.P.

I have a great deal of respect for the axe. Without it we as a whole would not have come this far. I use an axe quit often and while you could do a deer with it, that does not make it a good tool for the job.

You can not compare the two, but If I was stranded in the wilderness and could only have one or the other, I would want the axe. It can do just about everything a knife can do(afterall it does have an edge) just not as good. Plus, with all that weight even a dull axe will chop, not well but it will still chop.

An axe can also be used as a lever, a crutch, a hammer, a climbing tool etc . And in the worst case scenario you can burn the handle to keep warm or to cook.

A knife has it's bennifit's, but if I HAD TO choose I would take the axe.

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Louis Buccellato
http://www.themartialway.com
Knives, Weapons and equipment. Best prices anywhere.
-------------

"only the paranoid will survive":)


 
I prefer a 20" Ang Khola (really 22") that weights 3.75 lb over my axe. The axe is a cheap hardware store model so my opinions are bias. I find the khukuri chops just as well and is far more veritile. For example to downed trees I can get on my knees and use the khukuri. An out off control khukuri will strike the ground where as an out off control axe might strike me in this situation.

The amount of wood that is removed can be controlled with the khukuri. Different sections of the blade can be used for different types of wood. I like to use the belly for hardwoods. That way the force is concentrated. For soft woods I strike closer to the handle to use more of the blade.

I have a Sweedish hatchet that is well constructed but I would take a light 1.5-2 lb khukuri over it.

Will
 
I agree with the Martial Way! If I'm in an outdoors for a extended time, I want both the knife and ax. BTW, I have a small belt hatchet made from W-2 steel that is great...holds an edge better than any ax or hatchet I've ever used.
 
Gotta disagree with Epstein. Bowies and Kukris are NOT first and foremost combat weapons, although Kukris are great in battle.
They are used most often as tools, whether in battle or not. No doubt about it, they are very, very, practical. Much more sense to carry a big blade than to carry a small blade and an axe. Best survival tool and weapon, is a big knife - period.
 
I don't know about the rest of you but a full size 3lbs axe on my belt would cramp my style a little. And, anybody trying to cut down anything larger than a 2-3" branch with a bowie or kukri better be prepared to invest a considerable amount of energy. Which is more useful? That depends on what I intend to spend most of my time doing. It could be either or none. Frankly, 90% of my camp cutting chores are resoved by my plain old stockman.
 
I wonder how many big knife fans have actually cut down a sizable tree with a knife? If big knives worked as well as axes then our ancestors would have used big knives. An axe does a lot of the work for you if it is used correctly. That long handle not only acts as a lever but it absorbs a lot of the impact. You can also control an axe as well as a knife if you have a little experience. I think that one problem in this debate is that few people have used or even seen a good axe with a good edge on it. The chain saw has made finding a good axe very difficult. No one tool does all jobs well. As far as taking an axe and/or a big knife camping...I really see no need for either. Car camping is one thing, but if you are talking about backpacking they are both too heavy. I've never had to chop wood to build a campfire in my life. There are usually plenty of dead branches on the ground, and breaking them is usually quite easy. There are still a few places left in the US where you might need to blaze a trail and a big knife or machete would be handy, but that is not an axes job.

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Paul Davidson

Them:"What's that clipped to your pocket, a beeper?"
Me:"Uuh....yeah, something like that."


 
Paul,

Just some comments on the language. I think the guys are saying that a large bowie or kukri can serve as a replacement for a hatchet. A hatchet is very different from a full size axe. I believe that a good large knife can easily replace the typical camp hatchet. A full size axe though, is something else entirely.

As for the utility of these tools on a camping trip. I have used a 3/4 sized axe on many trips (primitive canoe camping not backpacking). You can start a camp fire with kindling, but if you want to keep it going for more than a few minutes you will need to put in some fairly heavy 4-8" diameter logs. The wood source is of corse deadfall, but it still takes a large tool to obtain suitably sized pieces, and trim them down to maintain a suitably sized campfire (no setting fire to the whole tree is not recommented
smile.gif
)

[This message has been edited by not2sharp (edited 26 November 1999).]
 
Axes look like they do and are still found in most hardware stores, at least around here, and don't look like big knives or swords which aren't found in most hardware stores, at least around here, because for chopping they perform better for much, much less money. A decent ax is usually less than $30, a 3/4 ax less than $20, and with say a 3/4 ax one is swinging typically 2 1/4 lbs with a 28 inch handle. All of the weight of the head is at the end of the handle, unlike with big knives where much of the weight is distributed along it's length. At the tree chopping contests one sees people using axes, not big knives, because axes are better tools for such tasks. Saws are better than axes for cutting trees if one isn't required to chop, but excluding saws which aren't seen much anymore they aren't as reliable. Axes and saws really complement each other anyway as saws don't split wood, limb, or drive wedges or stakes very well, but they're more efficient at cutting wood.

 
I'm a big fan of the axe. It feels cool to chop down trees with an axe; you can generate so much power with one. Of course, you'll rarely need to do this on a weekend camping trip. Fallen branches around your camp site should provide you with enough wood. (tip - at popular camp sites where easily accessible branches are not available on the ground, bring a grappling hook to pull down dead branches high on trees)

I see little use in a large fixed blade or a hatchet. I've had them on camping trips and never used them, nor have I used them in any type of yard work and what not. A semi-large blade is nice for camping though; say 4 - 5.5 inches long. You can use it to make tent stakes, prepare food, cut rope, etc.
 
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